Known spells of lower level

[AuraSeer]

Any spellcaster can store a low-level spell in a high-level casting slot. Can you do the equivalent with a known spell?

Say we have a Sor12, advancing to Sor13. He already has all the 3rd-level spells he will ever know, but he gets to pick one more 4th-level spell. Can he use that 4th-level slot to pick up Fireball or Greater Magic Weapon, or some other 3rd-level spell?

 

[Apok]

I think what your asking is; "can a sorcerer sacrifice one of his higher level Known Spell slots for an additional one of lower level?"

I don't know if the rules support this (I don't think they do), but as a DM I would allow it.

 

[dcollins]

(Edit: Quoted an allowance for wizards on PH p. 54, not relevant to sorcerers in this discussion.)

 

[Kamard]

I agree. I would let them learn a lower level spell, rather than the higher one. The only one it hurts in the end is no one.

 

[Drawmack]

I do not have access to my books from work so I am limited to only the SRD. The SRD has nothing to say on the subject of learning spells of a lower level but it has this to say about casting spells of a lower level.

Spell Slots: The various character class tables show how many spells of each level a character can cast per day. The character always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell.

I would rule that since a spell slot can be used to cast a spell of a lower level then it can also be used to learn a spell of a lower level. Although this is a houserulling and not something from the rules themselves.

I can see two cases where the player might wish to do this. One of the cases is that they have maxed out their third level spells known and really want one more spell this is third level. The other way is if a character's relevent ability score is not high enough to cast spells of the next level, after all it does have to be 19 to cast 9th level spells.

I would acctually handle these two situations a little differently. In the case of just wanting the lower level spell I would work with the player to make a beefed up version of the spell that is of the new level. Beefing up spells is easy enough change duration, increase damage/healing, increase area of effect, up everything by one spell caster level including the maximums. In the case of the ability score being to low I would just say go ahead and take the lower level spell.

Here is an example of beefed up Fireball (the changes are in red so you can see how little I acctually changed it):
Fireball
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 25-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes
A fireball spell is a burst of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 11d6) to all creatures within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.
The character determines the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the character and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point (an early impact results in an early detonation). If the character attempts to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, the character must "hit" the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.
The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with a low melting point, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, or bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.


Hope this helps.

 

[Dingleberry]

I'd certainly allow it.

Dancing into house rules, I'd also allow a sorcerer to learn a metamagicked spell in that slot, e.g., if the sorcerer had the Extend Spell feat, I'd let him use his a 4th-level "spells known" slot to pick up extended greater magic weapon. He couldn't cast a plain GMW, but he could cast the extended version fro mhis 4th-level spells per day with a "1 action" casting time rather than the regular metamagicked "1 full round".

 

[Li Shenron]

Any spellcaster can store a low-level spell in a high-level casting slot. Can you do the equivalent with a known spell?

Yes. I am 99% sure it's not a house rule. Wizards also can learn a lower level spell if they wish when they gain levels.

 

[Zhure]

"When you gain a new level,consult Table 3–5: Bard Spells Known or Table 3–17: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list in Chapter 11: Spells you now know. With the DM’s permission, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they have gained some understanding of (see Spells in the sorcerer description, page 50)."

Page 156, PHB.

I guess you could extrapolate "new and unusual" as being a lower level spell, but you're way better off researching a variant spell at a higher level as already suggested.

Greg

 

[Kamard]

I'd also allow a sorcerer to learn a metamagicked spell in that slot, e.g., if the sorcerer had the Extend Spell feat, I'd let him use his a 4th-level "spells known" slot to pick up extended greater magic weapon.

Ooooooohhhhh. Do it this way. Thats a good idea.