[KotS] What happens when the goblins start finding bodies?

[HRG]

Keep on the Shadowfell spoilers, beware!









Our group ventured into the keep for the first time two weeks ago. They cleared out the guardroom and excavation site, then last week headed south into the caves. They had a bit of trouble with the jelly but prevailed, then ran into a almost-disaster in the kruthik lair.

After the fight, the wizard suggested an extended rest. They cleared out the dead kruthiks and set up a light camp, setting a watch in case anything came looking for them. I decided that the goblins had very little interest in dealing with the kruthik infestation thus they rarely venture into that area and the party was able to rest undisturbed.

However, I can't convince myself that the remaining goblins (from the torture chamber and chieftan's lair) wouldn't discover their murdered kin while the pc's slept- mostly I'd like to avoid the "monsters waiting around in their rooms to die" style and make the keep a bit more dynamic.

So I'm assuming that if nothing else, one of the goblins from the torture chamber goes to see what his buddy is up to at the guard post and discovers the bodies. After Balgron is alerted, I figure the carnage at the excavation site would be found next, and preparations would be made to deal with the intruders.

But I'm drawing blanks on what to do, exactly. I've considered the idea of setting up an ambush in the hall outside the caves (pc's exit, goblins flood out of the secret door and the storeroom and flank them). Or perhaps Balgron alerts the hobgoblins on level 2, who send a strike team into the caves Metal Gear-style (sweep and clear!).

Does anyone have any cool ideas to approach the situation, and how it might affect the remaining encounters from the book (torture room/chieftan's lair mostly, but if the hobgoblins get involved it could cause some complications down on level 2 as well)? I'm not looking to rewrite the rest of the adventure, just to make the place feel a little more "lived-in".

Current party makeup, all level 2 -

Human Cleric (Pelor)
Human Paladin
Tiefling Feylock
Human Wizard
Halfling Rogue/Dragonborn Warlord (one guy plays the rogue as a second character when the warlord can't make the game)

If you made it this far, thanks for reading.

 

[Nebulous]

So I'm assuming that if nothing else, one of the goblins from the torture chamber goes to see what his buddy is up to at the guard post and discovers the bodies. After Balgron is alerted, I figure the carnage at the excavation site would be found next, and preparations would be made to deal with the intruders.

But I'm drawing blanks on what to do, exactly. I've considered the idea of setting up an ambush in the hall outside the caves (pc's exit, goblins flood out of the secret door and the storeroom and flank them). Or perhaps Balgron alerts the hobgoblins on level 2, who send a strike team into the caves Metal Gear-style (sweep and clear!).

Does anyone have any cool ideas to approach the situation, and how it might affect the remaining encounters from the book (torture room/chieftan's lair mostly, but if the hobgoblins get involved it could cause some complications down on level 2 as well)? I'm not looking to rewrite the rest of the adventure, just to make the place feel a little more "lived-in".

Your ideas are good, HR. I like setting up an ambush. Although i'm hesitant to bring in more than a hobgoblin or two, certainly not a whole encounters worth. Probably none at all.

I had sort of the same problem when my players were wiping out areas. The goblins were initially trapped inside Balgron's room (they didn't exit the secret chamber; they were scared and barricaded), and the PCs left the keep and later encountered the Graveyard problem in Winterhaven.

Anyway, they were gone a while, so the goblins finally poked around outside, cleaned up the bodies, set some traps (tripwires, bells, etc) and refortified inside Balgron's lair.

They didn't contact the hobgoblins at all, maybe out of fear. Hobs are really, really mean to them, and maybe Balgron wanted to handle this "problem" himself and look good.

Or, maybe the hobs are contacted after all, make a sweep and don't find anything, and kill a few goblins for wasting their time.

 

[vagabundo]

Are the Goblins able to guess where the PCs went? Tracks, clues? If so and they know that something bad-ass came through and went into the lair they, being the Gobo's they are, would probably try and keep it locked in there.

They are unlikely to know it is adventurers, although they might, and if there is nothing coming out of the caves after a few hours they may assume that something ate whatever killed their buds.

If their was an ambush planned they will get bored, goblins have a notorious bad attention span. But Balgorn or the hobgoblin may get them to try and board up the entrance, those caves are becoming too dangerous. Or they could trap/alarm the entrance.

Goblins will lie, tell tall tales and speculate;rumours may spread through the tribe of some fantastic monster that caused the killings, some will even claim to have witnessed it. Your PCs could pick up on this, maybe overhear some conversations if they are being stealthy.

Balgorn will replace the guards at the entrance and I'd have all the goblins alert and even jumpy - I can see one goblin shoot another in the arse with a loaded crossbow at a loud noise. More goblins may even be drafted in from the surroundings - I had the rest of the tribe near by living in a cave in the forest.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I often do the "reactive dungeon faction" stuff. I feel sometimes it is not a real benefit for the game, since I sometimes just add another encounter, often in repeating circumstances (like the original entrance area, but more defenders or better organized).

A few thoughts:
1) If you're a "rat bastard" DM that wants to focus on "believability" or "realismn", you could use this as an opportunity why it is not a good idea to let Defenders reorganize during your rest, and create an overwhelming encounter. I personally see little point to this, because it doesn't really advance the game. It just leads to more player paranoia - or the PCs dying when they try to fight through any of your bigger dungeons without resting, to avoid the retaliation.

So, if you're not a rat bastard DM, try to find ways to use the extra preparations to spice up the encounter. Adding traps, unusual troops, stuff like that.

2) The Goblins try to track down the aggressor and attack them. If they're back at the village, they won't do anything, but if not, they might attack at night. Pick a few Goblin Minions and a few regular warriors to make an encounter, difficulty/level depending on your thoughts on 1).

3) The Goblins request aid from the Hobgoblins. The entrance encounter could contain two Hobgoblins plus a few Goblins.

4) The Goblins just reorganize themselves. The entrance gets a few extra barricades, and Goblin Crossbowmen lie in waiting there.

 

[Halivar]

No way. Finding the bodies ought to delay the goblins.

"Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!"

How long does it take to fire up stew pots? The players have at least that long before the goblins can effectively react.

 

[Nebulous]

Yeah, it all depends on how much of a hardass DM you want to be. Logically, enemies would bolster their defenses as much as possible if enemies are known to be in the complex. Especially if Kalarel knows, he might very well order the hobbers to the 1st level.

But that would also make the encounters unnecessarily difficult, and might be perceived by the players as "punishing them".

I like the idea of new traps set up by the goblins to waylay anyone around, and alert them to their presence. In my campaign, paranoid goblins set up tripwire bells that led back to the Chieftan's lair.

 

[LostSoul]

So, ambush. That's a cool idea. Here is how I would set it up.

The setup:
The torturer takes his goblins from room 2 and prepares to move down into room 1 from the west when he gets the signal.
Balgron takes 3 of his warriors and 4 of his cutters and prepares to move through the secret doors into room 1 from the east when he gets the signal.
The rest of the goblins come down the stairs when they hear or see the PCs.

The signal:
One goblin is hiding in room 3, waiting for the PCs to climb the eastern stairs. Once they do so, he will open the secret door leading to room 4 and wave at Balgron, who will wave a light that the torturer in room 2 can see through the open hallway.

The problem:
The goblins are using Splug as their signalman.

 

[wedgeski]

Any ideas for an ambush quickly fall foul of the, "What, we're just gonna sit here all night waiting for the intruders to walk past?" syndrome, surely.

At the very least they might assemble a few gobs to do a sweep of the area. A few Stealth checks later, and the party might find their camp assaulted by every goblin left alive.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I had a similar situation with differences. In my case the party split up in the entrance chamber. THe tiefling paladin and halfling rogue had ganged up on a goblin and kept missing, the gobbo would shift and then manover to get a shot in and they followed him to torture chamber and triggered that encounter. They survived due the fact they had bought healing potions, the plaladin being a hard ass, some help from Splurg and the torturer rolling 5 ones in a row.
Meawhile their two buddiies the elven ranger and the dragonborn fighter die in the entrance chamber.
The survivers flee when they get back to the entrance and hear some more goblins on the way and Splurg does not stick as they are obviously losers.

So some new charactes later I decide that Balgron tries to set an ambush. Initially to lure them further toward the escavation room and then come out the secret door. It failed when the dragonborn warlock spots the secret door and jams it shut. While they nearly get it the delay was long enough to deal with each group separately and Balgron flees.

So yes, Balgron would try something. If he gets reinforcement from the hobgoblins then it would be a very tough encounter but the reward would that there would be no hobgoblins in the barrack or some such.

 

[Angellis_ater]

I would suggest more traps, barricading their door/exit and a withdrawal and concentration of enemies. Have them choose areas to fight where one PC gets to walk into a room and face 5 goblins with spears - and once they manage to push into that room, have the goblins flee into the next room and lock that door - inside there they have a few unwounded warriors, perhaps with crossbows, waiting.

If the PCs didn't go through and slaughtered every goblin they downed, have them meet a few of them AGAIN as their mates have patched them up, given them a few healing potions to drink and so on.