D&D 5E L&L - D&D Next Goals, Part One

[Sunseeker]

You gotta think about marketing and psychology and consumer behavior to see the context in which that's not a great idea.

As a lot of others in the thread have stated, "Beginners," or "Basic" or "Introductory" or whatever have a lot of things that ding the value of the product, for instance:

• It implies that the product labeled in such a way is not the "real" experience, but one for people who can't handle the "real" experience.
• It implies that the "real" experience is significantly more complex or challenging in some way, requiring some special expertise to use.
• It implies you're not getting the full experience, but a sanitized version.
• It implies the game was not made to be played by people who aren't already familiar with it, and this product is to make you familiar with it, rather than to show you what the game is like.

All those are massive problems with that label. And none of those are true about a game that is as simple to play up-front as OD&D might be. OD&D is real D&D. It is actual full-fledged D&D. It is short and small and has no races and only three classes, and monster entries only a paragraph long (with stats being a single line in a chart), but there are people who have never needed more than that to run 30+ years of awesome games.

OD&D is not "beginner's" D&D. It is not "lite" D&D. It is not "Basic" or "Introductory" or "Special Christmas Gift Set" D&D. It is 100% fully real D&D. It (or a NEXT book using that as an entry point to the game) doesn't need that "n00b zone" label, and all its negative connotations.

"Advanced" has its own negative connotations that the design/marketing team will probably want to take into account, too, of course. But I think making the first book basic and raw and limited is a great way to not only make people more likely to pick it up (and pick up other things), but also a great way to reinforce the idea that D&D is the kind of game your group makes it. Because most people will likely want more than the core book offers, it's a great way to reinforce the idea that you can add on whatever you want, and end up playing a very different game from someone two counties over.

That's assuming that either "basic" or "advanced" are even mentioned on the product names. If it's called the "Red Box" and contains a basic version of the game, then when the PHB/MM/DMG trifecta are released, there's no need to call them "advanced" at all. I suppose you could throw words like "Essential" or "Complete" or "Authoritative" or "Indispensable" in front of D&D if you really needed to. But eventually it would just "come to be known" that the "Red Box" is the starter product. It's where a group of friends can cheaply purchase the "whole game" and enjoy the whole experience in a limited fashion, much like those "unlimited time, but limited levels" MMO trials that many games do these days.

 

[I'm A Banana]

That's assuming that either "basic" or "advanced" are even mentioned on the product names.

It's deeper than a name. If an "introductory" product is later superceded, supplanted, or replaced by some other product, it's unncessary, and it carries those impressions with it.

D&D shouldn't need an "introductory" product. Whatever would go in that hypothetical red box? That's the D&D game. That's the bit that you can mod and expand upon. That's the OD&D you can play for 30 years with. You don't need any more than that.

If you WANT more than that, that's what the other books are for.

 

[I'm A Banana]

That's assuming that either "basic" or "advanced" are even mentioned on the product names.

It's deeper than a name. If an "introductory" product is later superceded, supplanted, or replaced by some other product, it's unncessary, and it carries those impressions with it.

D&D shouldn't need an "introductory" product. Whatever would go in that hypothetical red box? That's the D&D game. That's the bit that you can mod and expand upon. That's the OD&D you can play for 30 years with. You don't need any more than that.

If you WANT more than that, that's what the other books are for.

 

[Sunseeker]

It's deeper than a name. If an "introductory" product is later superceded, supplanted, or replaced by some other product, it's unncessary, and it carries those impressions with it.

D&D shouldn't need an "introductory" product. Whatever would go in that hypothetical red box? That's the D&D game. That's the bit that you can mod and expand upon. That's the OD&D you can play for 30 years with. You don't need any more than that.

If you WANT more than that, that's what the other books are for.

It doesn't matter if you need more than OD&D. The fact is there IS more to D&D than that. Fantasy gaming products are all over the market these days, even LEGO has their foot in the door. Between WoW, RIFT, DDO, LOTRO, and dozens of TTRPGs that fall into the generic fantasy tropes, what exactly does OD&D offer? WHY would a person purchase a game which requires such a supremely high level of involvement when there are a dozen alternatives for the same price which require far, far less?

Sure, I can still drive my 1987 'Fiero, it's a great car and I love it. But that doesn't mean the 2013 Tesla Roadster doesn't offer a lot of amenities that are quite valuable.

The way I see it, OD&D existed in an age where there was not much competition for the fantasy gaming market. DDN does not exist in that age. OD&D existed at a time when your artist friend and your imagination were the best graphics engine available. DDN does not exist in that time, and DDN needs to compete in this time, in this market, not the OD&D one.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It doesn't matter if you need more than OD&D. The fact is there IS more to D&D than that.

Sure. For some players. Don't mistake your personal preferences for universal truths. If you want more than the core D&D game, I'm sure WotC will be more than happy to sell you whatever you want! For those who aren't interested, they won't need to absorb a whole lot of superfluous junk in the first place before they can play their LotR rip-off.

what exactly does OD&D offer?

In the first case, it is a dramatically different play experience to any electronic game. The two forms of game don't have much more in common than a novel and a movie do. So ask why play a TTRPG rather than an MMO in general, and you'll get close to the first bit of what OD&D offers.

Against other TTRPGs, it possesses in the first place unmatched brand strength, which is not something easily discounted. That strength, for one, allows for higher accessibility: easy to find a D&D group.

Against other e's of D&D, it possesses traits such as simplicity, expedience, and completeness that even BEMCI (its nearest competitor on those metrics) would find hard to match.

Which isn't to say that there aren't games out there that might not also fit the bill for some players, just that they don't offer the same value due to a combination of factors.

D&D existed at a time when your artist friend and your imagination were the best graphics engine available. DDN does not exist in that time, and DDN needs to compete in this time, in this market, not the OD&D one.

From the publicly available data, this is a market in which all of the previous editions of D&D (lumping Pathfinder in, too) are doing much better than the most recent edition of D&D. If they want to do what sells in this market, they need to look at the past of D&D and what it offers players, and learn how to offer slightly better versions of that than the current OSR/Paizo people are offering.

It's totally legit to be bored of the standard fantasy tropes, but it doesn't then follow that the world is bored of them. I kind of enjoy China Mieville, but I'm weird. I like Jones Berry Lemonade Soda better than Coke, too.

I think it's important that D&D stay flexible so that it can accommodate Cactacae and steampunk weirdness, too, but that's never going to be as appealing as the classic Coke. I wouldn't want to make people sit through that just so they can weed it out and play LotR, either -- give them LotR. When and if they get bored of it, let them expand into the rarefied air of human beings made of crystals and archetypes based on shooting bumblebees from your bows.

 

[YRUSirius]

Yeah, just because a hardcore nerd (no insult) is bored of Tolkien, doesn't mean the mainstream audience is bored of Tolkien. Quite the contrary, right now. The mainstream WANTS plain old vanilla Tolkien, right now.

Read up on the "Blue Ocean" marketing strategy; Apple and Nintendo used it. They couldn't compete in the market, so they set sails onto a wide ocean and created a new, bigger market by expanding the audience. D&D should do the same. It's healthier for all of us, even the hardcore nerd.

-YRUSirius