L4W Discussion Thread IV

[CaBaNa]

For insight on the Monk unarmed strike, See Battlefist.

 

[elecgraystone]

Velmont, what you just quoted explains why it COULD be used by others, not why it couldn't. 'unarmed strike, which is a weapon in the unarmed weapon group'. Not treated as or acts as. It IS a weapon.

In fact look at the Focused Expertise feat included with the monk. You choose a weapon. You think monk strike is excluded? It also counts as a weapon for monk weapons. If it acts 100% as a weapon for all these other things why would it not be a weapon for the weapon proficiency feat? As I said, text would have to be added to exclude it's use from that feat if that is there intent.

CaBaNa, the battle fist requires you replace your hand with it. As such it's nothing like monk strike, which has nothing to exclude it's use by others. 'You have a battle fist, which replaces your hand.' is much different than 'You can make unarmed attacks with much greater effectiveness than most combatants.' One requires a battlefist and your chopping off a hand, the other requires you learn to hit someone effectively.

 

[Velmont]

Here how I read it: Unarmed Combatant is a class feature that allow to use your unarmed strike as a monk unarmed strike. In other words, it doesn't give you proficiency into monk unarmed strike, it transform your unarmed strike into a monk unarmed strike.

I see it just like the Rogue class feature Rogue Weapon Talent, that allow you to use a dagger at +1 att or shuriken at one damage die greater than usual. So these class features takes mundane weapon usable by anyone (unarmed, dagger, shuriken) in a more deadlier weapon (monk unarmed, dagger +1 to hit, shuriken at 1d6 damage).

And the only way I see to allow another class to have access to such thing, it is by creating a multi-class feat. Every is proficient in unarmed strike, but not everyone have the psionic training to turn there unarmed strike into a monk unarmed strike.

Once you have access to that class feature, all feat that apply to unarmed weapon applies to monk unarmed strike.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

I wouldn't be surprised if there are indeed some restrictions to who can use the monk's strike to full effect.

If a single feat allow you to gain the use of two +3 1D8 off-hand weapons, get ready for lots of Tempest Fighters who fight just as well bare handed as any monk... Maybe even a little better.

 

[CaBaNa]

It doesn't matter if you chop off your hand for the battlefist, what matters is you take the Paragon Path. It doesn't matter if the monk strike is a weapon, it matters that you take the Class.

 

[Theroc]

Being a monk requires Psionic training?

 

[Velmont]

Monk is a Psionic source class, like fighter is Martial, Druid is Primal, Cleric is divine or Wizard is Arcane.

By the way, TheRoc, you should look at A Paid Trip to Spellhold OOC and IC thread.

 

[Kalidrev]

The Monk from the PHB3 (to be released early next year, I believe) is a psionic class, not martial. All of it's abilities stem from the fact that the monk has unlocked his mind and uses his psionic abilities to perform actions outside of the normal realm of physical ability.

 

[elecgraystone]

Here how I read it: Unarmed Combatant is a class feature that allow to use your unarmed strike as a monk unarmed strike. In other words, it doesn't give you proficiency into monk unarmed strike, it transform your unarmed strike into a monk unarmed strike.

That's not what it says though. It's your right to read anything into the text you want, I just don't see it.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are indeed some restrictions to who can use the monk's strike to full effect.

It wouldn't surprise me either. I was just saying as it stands, IMO, it's a valid weapon to gain proficiency in it you are using preview material.

It doesn't matter if you chop off your hand for the battlefist, what matters is you take the Paragon Path. It doesn't matter if the monk strike is a weapon, it matters that you take the Class.

Where does it say that? That's like saying I can only use heavy blades as implements if I'm a swordmage. However my warlock can take the feat arcane implement proficiency to add them to her list of implements.

And just the way my warlock can take a feat to learn an implement proficiency from another class she could also take monk strike and add it to her weapon proficiencies. I don't see a difference that one is in traits and one is in features.

LOL It's been an interesting debate, but I think it's best to wait until the actual book comes out. Hopefully all this will be cleared up as I'm sure we aren't the only ones asking these questions. Best I not take up any more of this thread on the subject.

 

[Theroc]

By the way, TheRoc, you should look at A Paid Trip to Spellhold OOC and IC thread.

Ahead of you there. I just woke up like... an hour ago.

Anyways, okay, monk always struck me as a martial thing, but it seems Wizards likes to make them something else, be it magical or psychic, lol.