L4W Discussion Thread V

[treex]

I want to create a semi-spherical illusion on a window of a (most likely) goblin guard in a tower.

Mathematically speaking, how big can a Spectral Image (Wizard Utility 2) be if I were to make it semi-spherical?

It conjures an illusion up to medium size in one square. So, assuming it can cover a minimum of 25 square feet (one square being 5x5 feet) that would mean: 2(pi)r^2 = 7.62m

And thus have a radius of 2.27615788m if I were to cast a completely semi-sphere illusion on a flat surface but since this is a tower (which I assume would be cylindrical) my radius would be slightly smaller than that (but then again, that would only matter if the goblin sticks it's head out of the window and looking towards the walls, see that the "unaffected" surroundings don't "align" with the illusion properly)

Which I suppose is safely "out of reach" for the goblin, unless it pokes it's spear out of the window or something.
Now the window of uncertainty here is that I assumed the minimum surface area is 25 square feet when I actually cast a medium sized illusion.

Eitherway, I just wanted to dump my ramblings and thoughts on you guys.
Thoughts and opinions?

EDIT: And just to clarify, it's for my pbp campaign here "Desolation Island". As I have said, no one in my country (Malaysia) plays AFAIK. (Technically there is, but their a really small community and they're about 1200 km away :<)

 

[H.M.Gimlord]

That's a cool idea treex. Sounds feasible, and if I were DM, I would allow it, but, sadly, I'm not, so run the idea by jsb420 (the DM (for the benefit of others reading)).

How I would handle it if I were DM:

The image is technically not allowed to expand beyond a single square in any direction, but it would not have to be projected. It could be placed strategically (like inside the window itself, kind of like putting a photograph in front of a security camera) so as to achieve the desired effect. Since it is an illusion, it has no substance, and as such it is not a stretch to imagine that it can float in mid-air. I imagine that the Insight Check would be used to determine things like noticing edge effects, so I don't think doing this would incur any penalties.

The rules for it do say that it is either "a creature or an object", but if jsb420 is OK with it, you might get away with defining "object" broadly .

Keep in mind (as I'm sure you know): It'll depend on the distance to the window (e.g.: if the tower window is more than 50ft up or a way) and any goblin that sees it makes a DC 15 + 1/2 your level insight check. If they pass the check, they realize that it's an illusion. Any contact with the image will end it.

 

[TwoHeadsBarking]

Warning, it is too early in the morning for me to be entirely serious.

I would say you can't increase the size past one square. I have two reasons for thinking this:

1. It makes the calculations much easier, which is to say it removes the need for them.
2. There is no difference between a square and a circle in 4e.

Take a look at a battle map. Or any grid, really. Imagine a 3x3 area, the result of a close burst 1. For game purposes, all points on the outside of the burst are equidistant from the center. That is pretty much the definition of a circle. So what we thought was a square is actually a circle. Well, technically it's a disc. The point is that your 5 ft by 5 ft square is actually (or perhaps also) a circle with diameter 5 ft, which means you don't have any extra area to work with.

The implications of this, by the way, get hilariously ugly. You have adjacent circles that share entire edges, and you can place four of them next to each other to create a bigger circle. Previously straight hallways twist and buckle as their shapes change depending on where you're standing. Reality itself rends and tears, all because it doesn't cost any extra movement to go diagonally.

Also, your calculations aren't quite right. When you converted from feet to meters, you went from 25 ft to 7.62 m. But what you needed to do was go from 25 square feet to 2.32 square meters. If the maximum area of the image's "footprint" is 25 square feet, then we can find the maximum radius of the footprint, if we choose to believe that circles and squares are different:

• Circular area = 25 square feet
• (pi)r^2=25 square feet
• r^2=7.96 square feet
• r=2.82 feet

In meters, the radius is 0.86 m. If we switch back to feet, the diameter of the semisphere is 5.64 ft, which means the image would go past its original boundaries by .32 ft, or 3.84 inches, on each side. That is probably not worth the trouble. You get a few more feet if you choose to work with volume instead of footprint area, but I'll leave those calculations as an exercise to the reader.

 

[treex]

Ah yes, I made a mistake there. I put 25 feet into Google and it came up as 7.62 XD
That's quite enlightening thank you, I'm aware that it's generally accepted that squares would be treated as circles whenever it's more convenient.
And for RP purposes, because no one could suspend their belief enough if I were to make, say...a square tornado (lol)

Basically, the only reason I wanted to run this by you people is that firstly, a spherical illusion around the window would not make my illusion break if the guard were to simply lean on the window sill or something.

Also, from my point of view, a spherical illusion would be more realistic than if it were to be a "flat image". Of course it's magic, so we could just say that the image constantly changes from your point of view. Besides, it's cooler my way xD

But, it's mostly my first point, there'd be more leeway then if they were to get closer to the window. (I don't think guards would so conveniently stand away from the window)

And if anyone is wondering, the illusion breaks if:

1. It is attacked. (I can't recall if it has defenses and it must be successfully struck or something)
2. A creature moves through it. (So I assume it breaks if anything touches it at all)
3. It can be identified if they pass an Insight Check of 15+INT modifier+1/2 your level (which is 21 for my Illusionist) but it doesn't break.

So our party is trying to infiltrate this tower and I want to give some cover.

My alternative idea was to just make a distraction, suggestions are welcome because it has to attract attention and yet not get hit. Maybe...set the surroundings on fire by using Spectral Image and stacking it with Prestidigitations (so that's like 1 square + 3 effects) Then make roaring sounds.

Ta-da! A dragon is rampaging in the distance! Enjoy your "imminent doom" with a side dish of Quake-in-me-boots.

 

[fireinthedust]

This is a weird request, but a year ago we killed our GM KenHood with a joke about West Side story: Here abouts in the Turtledome thread.

KenHood disappeared and hasn't been heard from since.

Thing is, he's a genius. I'm thinking, then, that he could be playing the game in a very dedicated way. His last post was his death, and, potentially, he may not continue until such time as we bring him back from the dead in some form or other.

I don't know if thread necromancy is a good idea, as he'll come back as some horrific form of Un-DM (they being strange creatures in the first place) and prey upon us. Therefore, only a true Cleric of Light and Goodness should be called upon for this one.

That said, I posted that we should get a cleric to come help him. I don't know if L4W PCs have advanced to the point where a Ritual Caster is able to do a Raise Dead or similar spell on someone who's been dead for a year or so. Otherwise, we may need an NPC.


What do you think? If it doesn't work, at least we tried.

 

[treex]

You could say you guys hire an NPC cleric to revive him, and let the DM determine what amount of gold you guys have to pay him. It could double as a penalty and some payback. Just a thought...

(I shall now read that whole thread)

 

[CaBaNa]

Ha! I miss KenHood, he rubbed me the wrong way, in all the right ways... Speaking of missing people, has anyone gotten an update on r1, is he ok?

 

[Iron Sky]

I updated the charter with the theme, background, and expertise changes we've had that weren't in there.

If there's any changes I missed, let me know.

Edit: I also added time xp/gp awards for paragon. If someone wants to double-check my math, let me know.

XP was a simple calculation (Level / 6) while for GP I added the combined values of all 10 treasure parcels and divided them by 5 party members for the amount per level each PC should get. I then divided the result by 6 to get the monthly time award.

 

[Mewness]

I just posted some rewards in my Smuggler's Shiv adventure that require judge approval. Thanks.

 

[stonegod]

Ha! I miss KenHood, he rubbed me the wrong way, in all the right ways... Speaking of missing people, has anyone gotten an update on r1, is he ok?

No word. Hasn't response to my emails I sent awhile back. Officially MIA.