LA +0 Hobgoblin: who would you do it?

[Desdichado]

Title says it all. What tweaks would you make to the hobgoblin to make it LA +0? IMO, it's already pretty close; it's definately on the weak end of LA +1.

The simple way would be to get rid of the racial bonus to Move Silenty, then all the hobber is is a slight net positive ability score bonus plus darkvision, which I think is probably more or less equivalent to a PHB racial ability suite.

However, it's pretty bland. So I'm looking for some better ideas. I know Kingdoms of Kalamar has an LA +0 hobgoblin, but I don't have their book and I don't remember how they got there. Is it any good?

 

[Desdichado]

Hmm... another idea; maybe I should check out the trandoshan stats from Star Wars. I can't remember what they are off the top of my head, and I don't have any version of the book handy, but IIRC they were pretty similar in idea.

At the very least, it's another example of a LA +0 intent race with a net positive ability score modifier set.

 

[Nifft]

IMHO:

Hobgoblin -- Medium Humanoid (goblinoid)
Move: 30 ft.
Darkvision
+2 to Hide and Move Silently
Bonus Feat: Hobgoblins may select any Fighter bonus feat at 1st level to reflect the martial training of their culture.
LA: +0


Hobgoblin Elite -- as Hobgoblin, but +2 Dex, +2 Con, CR +1 if over 4 HD, and LA +1.


Cheers, -- N

 

[Desdichado]

Is +2 to Hide and Move Silently as well as Darkvision equivalent to an extra feat and an extra skill point every level?

That seems like maybe it goes a little bit too far.

 

[balterkn]

IMHO:

Hobgoblin -- Medium Humanoid (goblinoid)
Move: 30 ft.
Darkvision
+2 to Hide and Move Silently
Bonus Feat: Hobgoblins may select any Fighter bonus feat at 1st level to reflect the martial training of their culture.
LA: +0


Hobgoblin Elite -- as Hobgoblin, but +2 Dex, +2 Con, CR +1 if over 4 HD, and LA +1.


Cheers, -- N

For The +0 LA; I may go with the the original SRD entry and just give +4 on move silently (why no bonus to hide in the SRD is beyond me) to make the extension into the full hobgoblin a direct progression.

Full house ruling: I'd probably allow a character like this to take a racial level to get the +2 Dex / +2 Con (and maybe +1 BAB, +1 fortitude save, and 2+int skill points; but would have to think about it).


Re: comment that this is not in balance with a human. I'll recast that to ask if it is in balance with the other demihuman races.

The LA +0 version has a bonus feat (limited to fighter bonus feats, but still a bonus feat) and darkvision 60' (which is more generally useful than low-light vision, I'd consider this feat equivalent). The +2/+2 array is typical for demihumans. This version has full move (30) and is medium (no size wonkiness, uses regular weapons). 2 bonus feats plus a flat +2/+2 (or +4) is pretty similar to other demihumans.

 

[Creamsteak]

I would think it easier to "buff" them up to a more accurate +1 level adjustment in some way.

One thing not mentioned is just adjusting the ability modifiers. Something like +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Wis, -2 Cha. At this point I'd give them some additional racial modifier like weapon familiarity with some fairly-common hobgoblin weapons since they are a military race naturally.

Or as another thought, giving them some kind of bonus against races that have bonuses against them might make sense. +1 to hit dwarves or similar.

 

[Nifft]

Is +2 to Hide and Move Silently as well as Darkvision equivalent to an extra feat and an extra skill point every level?

Sure, compare against Spell Focus (Illusion), or Scribe Scroll.

On par with an Elf, weaker than a Dwarf... seems okay to me.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Drowbane]

Hobgoblin (MM, as is) LA 0.

Its just not game-breaking (hell, the PHB Dwarf is probably still a better race ). Be sure to have NPCs react to the "monster" appropriately.

 

[Nadaka]

+2 con, +2 dex, +4 ms, darkvision...

-2 charisma would make it balanced with the other PC races, except for dwarves, dwarves are still better.

 

[Desdichado]

Honestly, I'm kinda leaning the same way as Drowbane and Nadaka---I don't want to do too much to take away the (already, admittedly pretty weak) flavor that the hobgoblin rules already have, and I honestly feel that the net positive ability bonus modifiers aren't any better than the human's bonus feat, for example. So I guess maybe I'm answering my own question here that the hobgoblin doesn't really need much in the way of adjusting.

Also; hobgoblins are supposed to be this military race; why +4 to Move Silently? They're more apt to be soldiers, not sneaks and spies, right? So I'm leaning towards taking that away and otherwise leaving them as is: Darkvision and the ability bonuses. It's not a very flavorful set of mechanics compared to, say, elves or dwarves, but I prefer my flavor to be in the fluff anyway, rather than +1 attack vs. giants and stuff like that.

For Drowbane; the reason I'm asking this is that I'm noodling around with a campaign setting in which the goblinoids (minus bugbears, probably) and orcs aren't "monsters" they're just part of the racial tapestry that already exists, and should be LA +0 PC playable races from the get-go. So there could certainly be some racial "issues", but hobgoblins wouldn't be considered "monsters" per se.