LA +1 Minotaurs?

[Wik]

Alright. In my Drasconis Campaign, I have a race of Minotaurs called the "Halara'a", who live on a semi-arid island in a city known only as "the Mazeworks". These minotaurs are a bit more civilized over "savage" minotaurs, and are actually pretty cool.

They hate religion, and are led by a spell-casting Upper Circle-style caste that focus on Divination/Transmutation magic and dwell in the "Halls of Truth" that have semi-religious aspects (I want to make a PrC for them, actually).

Anyways, I wanted to make the Halara'a a playable character class, although still somewhat tougher on average than the the typical human commoner. So, instead of the ECL +8 that a minotaur would usually get, I want an ECL +1.

I'm curious about where to start?

Here's what a minotaur character usually gets:

+8 Strength, +4 Constitution, -4 Intelligence (minimum 3), -2 Charisma.
Large size. -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet.
A minotaur’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Racial Hit Dice: A minotaur begins with six levels of monstrous humanoid, which provide 6d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +6, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +2, Ref +5, and Will +5.
Racial Skills: A minotaur’s monstrous humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 9 × (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Search, and Spot. Minotaurs have a +4 racial bonus on Search, Spot, and Listen checks.
Racial Feats: A minotaur’s monstrous humanoid levels give it three feats.
Weapon Proficiency: A minotaur is proficient with the greataxe and all simple weapons.
+5 natural armor bonus.
Natural Weapons: Gore (1d8).
Special Attacks (see above): Powerful charge.
Special Qualities (see above): Natural cunning, scent.
Automatic Languages: Common, Giant. Bonus Languages: Orc, Goblin, Terran.
Favored Class: Barbarian.
Level adjustment +2.

***

I was thinking something like:

Medium-Size
+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma
Natural Cunning (Immune to Maze; can't be caught flat-footed)
Low-Light Vision
Powerful Build
Favoured Class: Fighter

(I was also thinking of including a racial ability that allowed Halara'a wizards or sorcerers - haven't figured out which, yet - to use Wisdom as their key ability instead of Cha or Int)

 

[Arkhandus]

Hmmm. I guess your version's OK, with the Wis-for-spellcasting thing thrown in. The +1 LA will really hurt spellcasters, while the Powerful Build and Strength bonus won't help them nearly as much as it helps warrior-types.

I'd suggest also giving them +1 effective caster level for determining the spell effects of any Divination or Transmutation spells they cast, and for purposes of determining dispel check DCs for those Divinations and Transmutations (IIRC, the DC of a dispel check is based in part on the caster level of the spell that is about to be dispelled). Adding +1 to the save DC of any such spells may or may not be unreasonable as well.

Lessee.....compared to half-giants, which as far as I know are similar to goliaths in power give or take a bit, this would still leave the race kind of weak. So maybe Improved Toughness is a racial bonus feat for this race of minotaurs? Or just give them +1 HP per two levels, rounded up.

 

[EP]

I was thinking something like:

Medium-Size
+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma
Natural Cunning (Immune to Maze; can't be caught flat-footed)
Low-Light Vision
Powerful Build
Favoured Class: Fighter

(I was also thinking of including a racial ability that allowed Halara'a wizards or sorcerers - haven't figured out which, yet - to use Wisdom as their key ability instead of Cha or Int)

What you have there is just enough to at least be on par with elves and dwarves, so add some more. Bumping the Strength up by two more should be more than enough to make it ECL +1. And assuming they still have horns, give them the gore ability (even if the horns do less damage).

If you can find a way to make magic and spellcasting their "religion," you could easily use that as an excuse to convert arcane magic to a Wisdom-based ability.

 

[smootrk]

Take the Ibixian (goatfolk race, MM3), remove the racial HD, tweak the abilities such as natural armor, and finally say that they are bull-folk instead of goat folk... presto +1 LA or maybe even +0 depending on how you tweak the stats.

 

[eamon]

Given the Str boost and the Int and Cha penalty, be sure to compare the final version to both Orcs and Half-orcs to make sure it's strong enough. Your current version is more like level adjustment +0 than +1 I think - though very strong then. You could leave the class as is, but instead of a level adjustment grant a racial HD. That's slightly less painful, esp. if it's monstrous humanoid which even grants a BAB.

 

[Darklone]

Let them retain the minotaur gore attack (come on, what's a mino without BULLrush?).

An additional natural attack as secondary thing is pretty nice and stylish.

 

[Wik]

Alright. Second draft:

Halara'a Minotaur:

Medium-Size
Type: Monstrous Humanoid
+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma
Natural Cunning (Immune to Maze; can't be caught flat-footed)
Low-Light Vision
Powerful Build
+2 racial bonus on all spot, search, and listen checks.
Gore Attack that deals 1d6 +1/2 strength modifier, as a secondary attack.
Wizards and/or sorcerers (probably just wizards, haven't decided yet) can use Wis instead of Int as their key ability, and gain a +1 bonus on their caster level when casting divinations and transmutation spells.
Favoured Class: Fighter
LA: +1

***

I think this is roughly balanced - the monstrous humanoid type means they're immune to a lot of effects, after all, and Powerful Build is pretty useful. I added the skill bonuses as well.

If you can find a way to make magic and spellcasting their "religion," you could easily use that as an excuse to convert arcane magic to a Wisdom-based ability.

Yeah, that's kind of the idea. While no one knows it in the campaign world, the minotaurs hate priests because it was the human priests of a lost city that caused the original minotaur curse. A few minotaur mages took control, founded the Mazeworks, and (using their transmutation magic) lessened the effects of the minotaur curse (which is why they're different from "normal" minotaurs). These Seers of the Truth are definately at least quasi-religious, even though they are devoutly anti-religious.

 

[EP]

Considering your minotaurs have penalties to Intelligence and Charisma, probably best to allow both wizards and sorcerers to use Wisdom for their spells. Or give them to option to choose, in case they still end up with a higher Int or Cha roll somehow.

Something we did to clarify the natural cunning ability in Campaign Options: Mazes (since it's pretty vague and useless as is, IMO) was expand on it to make it more useful for minotaur PCs. For example, it allows a minotaur to remember any path he's walked before when he returns to it. So, in a maze, for example, if a minotaur returns to a spot where he has already walked, he'll remember it - even if the spot looks exactly the same as another spot. And a couple other little tidbits just to make the ability more practical in game. Might be something to think about since there's not much chance your minotaurs will have the maze spell cast on them time and time again.

 

[Wik]

Considering your minotaurs have penalties to Intelligence and Charisma, probably best to allow both wizards and sorcerers to use Wisdom for their spells. Or give them to option to choose, in case they still end up with a higher Int or Cha roll somehow.

Something we did to clarify the natural cunning ability in Campaign Options: Mazes (since it's pretty vague and useless as is, IMO) was expand on it to make it more useful for minotaur PCs. For example, it allows a minotaur to remember any path he's walked before when he returns to it. So, in a maze, for example, if a minotaur returns to a spot where he has already walked, he'll remember it - even if the spot looks exactly the same as another spot. And a couple other little tidbits just to make the ability more practical in game. Might be something to think about since there's not much chance your minotaurs will have the maze spell cast on them time and time again.

Also good stuff. Consider it yoinked, although it's more of a flavour thing than real crunch.

As for the wizard/sorcerer bit, it has nothing to do with mechanics. In Drasconis, all sorcerers pretty much have Draconic blood (and, as such, have political power). I was wondering if I really wanted to have my minotaurs (who, while allies of the Drasconi empire, are still a bit standoffish) have distant blood relations to the dragons.

So, yeah, it's pretty much a campaign reasoning. I might add it anyways, though. Still haven't quite decided (campaign *is* a work in progress, after all!)

 

[Sigurd]

I like it but...

I don't like just shifting arcane magic to wisdom. Too many game balances are based on division of magic benefits between the stats.

I think its more genuine and reasonable to just have them be lousy wizards. What are the stat minuses supposed to do after all. I've played wizards who suffered -2 to intelligence before. It hurts, but never being caught flat footed isn't hard to take.


Sigurd