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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Lack of saving throws against various effects
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<blockquote data-quote="Ellington" data-source="post: 5991556" data-attributes="member: 6692166"><p>I just wanted to see how you guys felt about the lack of saving throws or opposed rolls against spells and maneuvers that can actually have a somewhat potent effect. Here's a short list (probably not exhaustive) of these abilities and their effects.</p><p></p><p><strong>FIGHTER MANEUVERS</strong> - These only require the fighter to hit and don't offer any sort of save from the target creature, no matter how powerful it is (size does matter, though)</p><p></p><p>Push (10 ft knockback)</p><p>Knock Down (prone)</p><p></p><p>Getting knocked down can be a pretty big thing, especially if there's a rogue somewhere around to utilize the advantage granted against you. The knockback isn't quite as bad, I guess, but getting knocked off a cliff without a save could be annoying.</p><p></p><p><strong>ROGUE ABILITY</strong> - Only the one I can count, offers no save or opposed roll, but requires the rogue to hit</p><p></p><p>Cheap shot (Movement reduced to 0 for one round)</p><p></p><p>I can already see the potential abuse. With the Sharpshooter speciality, you can spend your turns using Aim and moving around, guaranteeing the target will never catch you while you can just pluck away. Working on any creature without a save is huge.</p><p></p><p><strong>SPELLS</strong> - I'll omit spells with HP thresholds, that's enough for another thread in itself</p><p></p><p>Ghoul Touch (Movement reduced to 0 for ONE MINUTE)</p><p>Shocking Grasp (no reactions)</p><p>Ray of Frost (Speed drops by 10 ft)</p><p></p><p>These aren't too bad, apart from Ghoul Touch. Having your movement speed reduced to 0, with NO SAVING THROW, for a whole minute while the party can just fire at you for ten rounds is insane. I realize the wizard has to get into a dangerous position to get this off, but still. </p><p></p><p>Am I overreacting or should at least some of these drastic effects allow for some more defense on the monsters behalf beyond praying that the PC doesn't make his hit?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ellington, post: 5991556, member: 6692166"] I just wanted to see how you guys felt about the lack of saving throws or opposed rolls against spells and maneuvers that can actually have a somewhat potent effect. Here's a short list (probably not exhaustive) of these abilities and their effects. [B]FIGHTER MANEUVERS[/B] - These only require the fighter to hit and don't offer any sort of save from the target creature, no matter how powerful it is (size does matter, though) Push (10 ft knockback) Knock Down (prone) Getting knocked down can be a pretty big thing, especially if there's a rogue somewhere around to utilize the advantage granted against you. The knockback isn't quite as bad, I guess, but getting knocked off a cliff without a save could be annoying. [B]ROGUE ABILITY[/B] - Only the one I can count, offers no save or opposed roll, but requires the rogue to hit Cheap shot (Movement reduced to 0 for one round) I can already see the potential abuse. With the Sharpshooter speciality, you can spend your turns using Aim and moving around, guaranteeing the target will never catch you while you can just pluck away. Working on any creature without a save is huge. [B]SPELLS[/B] - I'll omit spells with HP thresholds, that's enough for another thread in itself Ghoul Touch (Movement reduced to 0 for ONE MINUTE) Shocking Grasp (no reactions) Ray of Frost (Speed drops by 10 ft) These aren't too bad, apart from Ghoul Touch. Having your movement speed reduced to 0, with NO SAVING THROW, for a whole minute while the party can just fire at you for ten rounds is insane. I realize the wizard has to get into a dangerous position to get this off, but still. Am I overreacting or should at least some of these drastic effects allow for some more defense on the monsters behalf beyond praying that the PC doesn't make his hit? [/QUOTE]
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Lack of saving throws against various effects
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