Lack of tactics..

[Oompa]

So.. My group i'm dming, isnt using reall tactics so lower level monsters are harder then normal.. I need to fudge rolls not to kill them.. I know the best lesson is to kill them off, but i want it different, i want to have an d&d night and learn them the tactics..

What should be an good party, monster that they can fight and learn tactics? I plan on rolling open all night..

The party is..

9 wizard, 9 fighter, 9 paladin, 8 cleric, 8 rogue, 8 druid...

 

[SolosAddie]

well, you can kill them off as you say.

A group I was in, the DM was in the army ROTC, liked having intelligent NPCs, that took l advantage of his knowledge for the most part.

Not being militarily inclined for the most part, and being newish to AD&D, he solved our lack of tactical cunning with a little time giving us the basics, both of in-game rules, and general real world tactical guidelines.

Perhaps an option is to talk to your group, and ask if they want to discuss general combat dos and don'ts before jumping into the session one week.

For instance, generally concentrate damage to kill one enemy at a time, use flanking, be aware of line of sight.

 

[irdeggman]

Another way is to do a debrief after the session and analyze how things could have been done better. Problem with is that if they "think" they are fine since they won't have their characters die then they will have no incentive to think differently in the first place.

 

[shilsen]

I know the best lesson is to kill them off

It isn't. Killing them off without actually showing them how to improve their tactics are better is like giving someone an F on a paper without explaining why they got it. If you want them to improve their tactics, I'd recommend a few things:

(1) Talk to them as players (not PCs) and explain that you think their tactics could be much better and that they're significantly handicapping themselves with their current tactics.

(2) Offer to give them some ideas for better tactics and run a one-off adventure or just a series of fights where they can practice those tactics and come up with others.

And, most importantly, discuss whether they are really interested in getting much better tactically. Everyone doesn't play D&D the same way. Your players, or maybe just some of them, might just prefer a game where their PCs don't need to be great tacticians to survive. And that's perfectly okay, as long as you're willing to and capable of running such a game.

What should be an good party, monster that they can fight and learn tactics? I plan on rolling open all night..

One of the best ways to teach a group tactics is to use those tactics against them. So I'd recommend hitting them with a group of enemies who are similar to them but significantly weaker, and have the enemies punch much above their weight through good tactics.

The party is..

9 wizard, 9 fighter, 9 paladin, 8 cleric, 8 rogue, 8 druid...

Going with what I noted above, maybe have them go up against a 6 person NPC party, consisting of a Wizard 7, Fighter 7, Paladin 7, Cleric 6, Rogue 6, Druid 6. If the players are as tactically weak as you say, the NPC party should be able to take them down through intelligent use of tactics.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

One thing to consider is explaining your reasoning for all of the NPCs' actions for one fight or two. "He moves around for the flank because +2 to hit never hurts." "He delays, anticipating that his ally will provide a flank. He could have readied an attack for when he got a flank, but that would have limited himself to one attack and two is better than one." "He readies an action to cast silence on the area where the first one of you begins to cast a spell. He could cast silence now, but you'd just move out of the area and then cast the spell. He could cast silence on the spellcaster, but then you'd get a save. When he targets it, he's going to place the area such that you have to move forward into range of his allies in order to cast spells/such that you have to move back out of close range in order to cast spells" "This first round, he's going to power attack for full, charge, and use his smite and surge of malevolence feat to ensure he hits. That gives him a slight chance to take one of you down immediately which would dramatically shift the combat in the gnolls' favor. If it doesn't, however, it will still do a lot of damage and will probably make your party stick to a much more cautious gameplan which will give him time to bring his superior numbers to bear."

 

[mvincent]

What should be an good party, monster that they can fight and learn tactics?

Having them fight a (lower level) group of adventurers (that use good tactics), might help.

Basically, they just might not be interested in tactics. If possible, find at least one player that is interested in tactics and have him provide tips to the others during play.

 

[roguerouge]

Sounds like you need to have someone be the sergeant in the party, providing direction and overall know-how to create a focused overall plan. Try to see if the players will select one for you after they get captured, lose items, fail in a quest, let a BBEG get away, etc.

 

[Oompa]

I've made an lvl 4 fighter, lvl 5 wizard, rogue and cleric with 3300 worth of equipment each. They know we have an special night to see what could go different and everyone agreed and wanted it, it is also more an night to learn there own abilities, and use them together with there teammates..

They will meet this team on an simple sandfield, both teams get 3 prep rounds and then the fight starts. Both teams are 50 feat apart.. full hp and spells..

Tactics i am going to suggest and use..

Invisibile rogue, no cluttering for fireballs, take out wizards fast, use of spells like grease, mirror image and more, bull rush, deeper darkness, sneak attack, flanking by rogue/fighter/cleric

They think itt'll be an fight to the death, so they will give it all, but if i manage to kill someone they'll get there char back at the end of the encounter..

Any other tips or hints?

 

[blargney the second]

I sometimes use the Arena Of No Consequences so my players can try stuff out to see what works and what doesn't.

Like Shilsen said, you could also have them get thoroughly trounced by a lower level party using good tactics to capture them. Point out specific tactics and options that the enemies are using, so the players know that they're available for their characters to use as well.
-blarg

 

[irdeggman]

They think itt'll be an fight to the death,

I think this is the big difference from earlier.

They think that there are real consequences and that makes all the difference.

so they will give it all

And that is the result of thinking that their characters might die due to poor planning. Which is really what yuo wanted inthe first place, I believe.