Lack of tactics..

[Oompa]

I think this is the big difference from earlier.

They think that there are real consequences and that makes all the difference.




And that is the result of thinking that their characters might die due to poor planning. Which is really what yuo wanted inthe first place, I believe.

Normally they would die to, but then i needed to start 6 new adventures in an year.. so now the special night is organized, they know the risks and hopefully from now on they tend to use more tactics..

 

[Cicciograna]

You could run an adventure in a military school, in which characters can talk to weapon masters: you could give 'em some advice in game, and let 'em practice the newly acquired knowledge in training fights, maybe with wooden swords, against mannequins, or better, illusions: you could make up a whole new spell, "Training Image", a 2nd level illusion Wiz/Sor spell that creates a combatant of your choice (pick a NPC class from DMG or create a new antagonist from scratch, even a monster); it would be basically equal to "Minor Image", with the improvement that the illusion won't disappear if hit and, if it makes a successful attack, it gives the PC a shivering on his back and a minor sense of weakness in the part struck by the illusion. I would like this sort of training: maybe your players would too...

 

[Nail]

.. so now the special night is organized, they know the risks and hopefully from now on they tend to use more tactics..

Err...what risks? I thought you said they couldn't die, etc.


IME, trying to impose how you want to play the game (example: use good tactics) on others without understanding what they want (example: don't care about tactics) is liable to work poorly. And that's assuming that you actually know good tactics. Many people over-estimate their own prowess! {EDIT: Especially when sitting in the DM chair!}

Consider, instead, just hitting them with lower EL encounters. If the APL is 11, then hit 'em with EL 8s. The CR system was designed so you could do this sort of change easily.

 

[Oompa]

Its a party that wants combat, but they dont want to fight mere simple goblins, they want to be challenged but i cant throw an enemy that is fit for them cause they just can't handle it.. They don't use tactics, and they know it and want to use them, that's why this night is..

In this night they will die if something happens, but because it is an practice/training night they will be brought back to life at the end of the night (they just dont know that). And hopefully they will use the newfound tactics in the nights after cause then i won't hold back..

 

[irdeggman]

So basically the players have no idea how to use tactics in a game. They have essentially no war game experience and probably very little on-line gaming experience too.

That makes things challenging. You should have started them out much lower in level so that they could gradually see how tactics play out - especially if they are "surprised" or "surrounded" or "attacked by a mixed group where the warriors protect the spellcasters", etc.

 

[Oompa]

So basically the players have no idea how to use tactics in a game. They have essentially no war game experience and probably very little on-line gaming experience too.

That makes things challenging. You should have started them out much lower in level so that they could gradually see how tactics play out - especially if they are "surprised" or "surrounded" or "attacked by a mixed group where the warriors protect the spellcasters", etc.

They had characters from level 1 to 8-9, 4 of them played more then 5 years and 1 for 2 years now and 1 for half an year..

But at lower levels tactics ain't there biggest worry, so now they are an bit higher and then it is needed..

And this is the only game they play, no pc games, console games or other board games..

 

[irdeggman]

But at lower levels tactics ain't there biggest worry, so now they are an bit higher and then it is needed..

Should have been.

My low level parties were constantly surprised while sleeping (w/o armor) and the baddies routinely targeted spellcasters so we had to have and use them to survive - since death was always an option (I had 3 characters die - dwarven wizards really need to cast Exp Retreat quickly (that slow movement will cause all kinds of trouble).

Using "tactics" really doesn't depend on what level the characters are if the DM is playing consistently with them (tactics) in mind.

If on the other hand most of their encounters were of the single foe variety instead of a party of orcs/goblins then. . . . .