Lance Charge and Cleave.

[mikebr99]

While I agree that you can't use a different weapon on a cleave, I don't agree with the notion that a cleave attack is necessarily a "follow through" of the initial attack. The rules simple do not support this.

Sure they do... the feat is called CLEAVE (not buy one get one free), IE. to cut something it too... and the fact that the feat requires improved STR and the power attack mechanic (which may or may not be used at the same time.)

For instance, you could be fighting two orcs in a 5' wide corridor with one orc on each side of you. You attack Orc 1 with your great sword and fell him. There is simply no reasonable way that the momentum of your swing carries your attack through Orc 1, through the stone wall and into orc 2. Yet this is a completely allowable and reasonable use of cleave. So in this case, it seems the felling of Orc 1 allows you to suddenly shift your focus and catch Orc 2 off guard or something.

or something.... yeah like maybe the great swing started below the 1st opponent and carried through him, up over your head, and down into the guy that was behind you, not through the wall.

Basically, there is no default explanation flavor wise of exactly a cleave is. It is simly an extra attack. The DM should mold the explanation to fit the situation and if no reasonable explanation can be found (and that bothers you) then don't allow it.

For a mounted charge w/ a lance...sure I'd allow it. The target must be within reach and probably on the same side of the attacker as the original target. First target get's mowed down and the attacker is strong enough and skilled enough to move his lance onto a second target...

This might work in a situation like this:

312
XXX
XAX

A = attacker. 1 = Target 1. 2 = Target 2. 3 = Unavailable target

Attacker is charging Target 1 from the bottom of the page and has 10' reach. He must attack from the square he is in. 1 falls. So he is able to somehow shift his attack to 2 as well. He could probably not attack 3 (assuming he is right handed and attacking with his lance on the right side).

Realistic? Probably not. Do I care? No.

If the 2nd target was behind the 1st, then the cleave during a charge with a lance could continue... but no changing direction is allowed.

 

[Astlin]

"How can you end a charge be able to hit opponent number 1 and not be albe to hit number 2 with the lance. "

Easy to do with a reach weapon. Move to where you are within 5' of #2 and 10' of #1. Just hit the guy in the second rank.


I would not allow it. It is a lot easyer to setup than you seem to think.


Astlin

 

[mikebr99]

"How can you end a charge be able to hit opponent number 1 and not be albe to hit number 2 with the lance. "

Easy to do with a reach weapon. Move to where you are within 5' of #2 and 10' of #1. Just hit the guy in the second rank.


I would not allow it. It is a lot easyer to setup than you seem to think.


Astlin

Yeah... I guess, with the charge mechanic, you could stop once you hit #1 and cleave into #2... But I would house rule that a Cleave requires a cleaving/slashing/bludgeoning weapon to attack in this fashion... in order to use a peircing weapon with cleave, you need to also use the ride-by-attack and continue in a straight line.

 

[Macbrea]

By the rules, you are allowed to cleave with a lance. And if you do it correctly you can even make the scene look really waky.


X1X2X
XXXXX
XXaXX
XXXXX
XX3XX
XXXXX
XXXXX
XXhXX

Rider h can overrun orc 3 to position a and down orc 1, cleave into orc 2, and great cleave into orc 3. This represents a man swinging around and stabbing the other two individuals with the point of the weapon.

 

[apsuman]

By the rules, you are allowed to cleave with a lance. And if you do it correctly you can even make the scene look really waky.


X1X2X
XXXXX
XXaXX
XXXXX
XX3XX
XXXXX
XXXXX
XXhXX

Rider h can overrun orc 3 to position a and down orc 1, cleave into orc 2, and great cleave into orc 3. This represents a man swinging around and stabbing the other two individuals with the point of the weapon.

And *I* was the one called a maroon.

But yes, you are correct by the book, this is allowed -- i think -- can you spin in your saddle like that?

g!

 

[Macbrea]

By the book there is no facing. With the exception of the "Shield spell", "the tower shield", and the fact that you are sitting on the back section of a 5x10ft horse.

 

[apsuman]

I would not allow it. It is a lot easyer to setup than you seem to think.

Astlin

Faior enough, but do you really think that somebody would be imho dumb enough to drop the lance that can cause a lot of damage for a melee weapon?

Again, I might be wrong, after all I am a maroon. However, while it is outside the definition of Cleave allowing a person with the necessary feat (quick draw) to exercise thier cleave feat seems less unrealistic than running past an opponent and then cleaving the opponent behind you as MacBrea points out is allowable in the rules.

g!