Large red dragon mini with only 5 fire resist...

[TwinBahamut]

To expound: the Nemean Lion was strangled (or choked) to death. In skinning the hide, Heracles used the claws, because otherwise the darn thing wouldn't come off.

But your point is otherwise good

Well I know that. I have only been reading about the Labors of Heracles since I was in my second year of elementary school. It just wasn't relevant.

I know that the Chimera which breathed fire was killed by the lead that was melted by that same fire-breath and poured down its throat, but I can't remember if it was the heat of the molten metal or asphyxiation that killed the beast... Is that made clear somewhere?

 

[Tewligan]

I have only been reading about the Labors of Heracles since I was in my second year of elementary school.

You've been reading it since second grade?! Damn, how long does it take you to finish a book?

 

[Incenjucar]

And if a dragon needs fire resistance in order to create an obviously magical aura of fire, or breathe an obviously magic gout of flame (or lightning), then why doesn't a wizard need fire/electricity/acid/cold resistance when casting burning hands, shocking grasp/lightning bolt, Melf's acid arrow, or cone of cold?

All of these spells originate from your hand, which isn't designed to be shooting out things like that. If magic can explain why a human can do it, then magic damn well explains why a dragon can do it, and arguing otherwise is just silly.

It would be interesting, actually, if one presumes that shrugging off these abilities is actually part of the effort... if you could sacrifice your own resistance to it in exchange for freeing up that power...

Kamikazi dracobomb?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You've been reading it since second grade?! Damn, how long does it take you to finish a book?

He seems to be good at enjoying books. Not like the kids today, that want everything be told to them in a neat 45 minutes + commercials package!

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Don't mind me. Just spectating. Darren is fast becoming one of my favorite posters.

Taking credit for everything I do! Everything I create!

I need a fist-shaking old-man-on-a-porch smiley.

 

[Derren]

Jellyfish are made of something like 90-99% water. They are aquatic creatures who breathe water, and could not survive outside of water very long.

I guarantee you, if you put a saltwater jellyfish in fresh water, fresh water would pour into every cell in its body at a very fast rate, and every cell in its body would rupture, killing the creature very quickly. It would die from nothing more than contact with water, its native element.

Also, human breath air through our lungs, but if a single bubble of air forms in our bloodstream it can very easily be fatal.

A lot of living things can be killed by things they interact with on a constant basis, simply by getting past the physical barriers they put up to protect the fragility of their own internal systems.

Water can be dangerous when you add or remove substances to it. Right...
Did you know that air is absolutely deadly for human beings (when you remove the oxygen from it)? Its a miracle that we are still alive.

And all arguments so far have been "Creatures should not be immune because of real life/scientific example" or "when things hit you with enough force..." and those are very weak reasons and look as if you only want to argue.
Care to give a reason for removing immunities from the D&D/mechanical side (except giving bad build the illusion of effectiveness)?

 

[StarFyre]

immunities

the good thing on immunities, is that it's the easiest thing to house rule if you want to add it back to a creature or remove any that they may still have in 4e

I don't buy the whole, to make a pc useful in an encounter. Just like real life, there isn't always a time that everyone is 100% useful. My friends don't mind this and will always find other stuff (sometimes, more important than the people fighting) to do during an encounter when they can't be the main combatants.

I find this more of a modern video game mentallity where everyone has to be 100% effective all the time or they don't find it fun. The fact that not everyone is equal just seems hard for people to realize now days....

Sanjay

 

[FourthBear]

And all arguments so far have been "Creatures should not be immune because of real life/scientific example" or "when things hit you with enough force..." and those are very weak reasons and look as if you only want to argue.
Care to give a reason for removing immunities from the D&D/mechanical side (except giving bad build the illusion of effectiveness)?

Here are several arguments I have made that do not fit your claim above and have not been addressed:

1) Fire resistance for the dragon is briefly and temporarily increased when the dragon breathes fire
2) The dragon is magically attuned to its own flames in a way that is not matched by other flames
3) The dragon has magical control over fire that allows it to avoid damage from flames it controls (and a measure of resistance from flames from outside sources)
4) The flames it generates and controls are generated in such a way as to avoid close contact with its more vulnerable surfaces.

I will also note that even outside these, there really is *no* reason why a dragon needs fire resistance beyond the damaging power of its own flames. So that if a dragon does 50 points of fire damage, it doesn't need absolute and utter immunity. Even under the most naive of assumptions, it merely needs 50 points of fire resistance. There's no reason that it should be immune to a fire attack from a god that does 1000 points of damage or be able to ignore entering the stellar heart of the sun at billions of points of fire damage. All fire isn't the same.

 

[Protagonist]

Since when makes being immune to fire something immune to drown in lava? Actually thats the exact example which was given to show that lava can still harm fire immune creatures.

If they fall into lava they die. No save.

 

[small pumpkin man]

Water can be dangerous when you add or remove substances to it. Right...
Did you know that air is absolutely deadly for human beings (when you remove the oxygen from it)? Its a miracle that we are still alive.

More specifically, humans need oxygen to survive, however, pure oxygen is toxic at a pressure of 1g or more. The point here, as with many of the examples, is that evolved creatures tend to only have resistance to things in their proper place, and their proper amount, thus if you look at it from that perspective it's completely possible an evolved dragon, would be able breath and spout fire, and have specific resistances to that, which still being vulnerable to fire from outside sources.

If you don't want to talk about it from that point of view, magic can do anything, and it's entirely consistant for a creature to have fire abilities and no fire immunity.

And all arguments so far have been "Creatures should not be immune because of real life/scientific example" or "when things hit you with enough force..." and those are very weak reasons and look as if you only want to argue.
Care to give a reason for removing immunities from the D&D/mechanical side (except giving bad build the illusion of effectiveness)?

Perhaps you should have asked earlier?

I would assume for the same reasons they changed DR in 3.5, and are reducing the amount of creatures immune sneak attack and reducing the amount of immunities full stop, because it reduces options, starts silly "power wars" and brings little to the table.

I'm sure I could give a more cohent argument at a later time *yawn* maybe I'll try tomorrow.