Lasting frost, wintertouched, frost weapon

[Nail]

CA every round isn't really that big a deal - it's rare for there to not be a way to get it: the only difference is with the combo that your part of the tactical game on the battlefield just got a lot easier and much less interesting, and you're making the battlefield a bit less dynamic and interesting.

Exactly. If anything is so good that it's a "gimme" for everyone, you know it's broken.

This combo needs to be house-ruled in a hurry.

I've told players that if they use this combo, they can expect ALL monsters to also use this combo.

All of them.

 

[Nail]

That extra 2d8 sneak attack damage is pretty easy to get at paragon levels, especially if you're in a party that likes to work as a team.

But James, the point is: With this combo, you don't have to."

That's bad, IMO. YMMV.

 

[Family]

It'd be 3d8 (w/ backstabber feat) damage at paragon levels. (5d8 at epic).

 

[DracoSuave]

The fix is actually pretty simple. Make it so that changing the damage type of an attack doesn't change the keyword of the power. Remove inheritance for keywords of powers, but leave it as-is for damage-types. Then you still get the benefit of the feat with the frost weapon's daily power (it targets the monster) but the at-will does what it should and makes your damage frost damage. In conjunction with a fire damage attack it still makes the damage fire-frost damage (and really hard to resist). Things still work as intended.

 

[James McMurray]

But James, the point is: With this combo, you don't have to."

That's bad, IMO. YMMV.

Easier combat advantage or not, a rogue that doesn't work as a team is a corpse.

 

[Nifft]

Exactly. If anything is so good that it's a "gimme" for everyone, you know it's broken.

This combo needs to be house-ruled in a hurry.

I've told players that if they use this combo, they can expect ALL monsters to also use this combo.

All of them.

"Great, we all buy that Cold resisting armor. Thanks for the intel."

- - -

Seriously, it's a decent tactic, but it's NOT broken. Unlike Fire, there are no critters in the MM who are naturally vulnerable to Cold* -- but there are plenty who resist it. The cold-based Wizard at-will is easily the weakest. Cold damage is kinda teh suck in 4e, and Wintertouched + Lasting Frost make it interesting -- for Paragon tier.

As soon as Epic tier rolls around, Irresistible Flame comes on the scene, and Fire damage is king again.

Cheers, -- N

*) Except Magma Creatures, who have a funky, not-extra-damage type of vulnerability.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Exactly. If anything is so good that it's a "gimme" for everyone, you know it's broken.

I pretty much said the exact opposite. Getting CA is NOT "so good it's broken" for a melee fighter. CA for a melee fighter itself is almost a gimme: you basically always have it unless you can't be bothered to get it. The same goes for a ranger or a rogue who wants to attack at range - with stealth and the new rules it's pretty easy for them to get CA when they want it.

Like I said before: The feat combo is better at it's intended use in powering up wizard cold spells than it is for the unintended ability to boost a melee combatant. It's certainly much better than any of the other elemental boosters. That might be just that the other elemental boosters don't have two-stage combos yet(I find it hard to believe that the fire one is going to have anything that might combo with it though).

 

[firesnakearies]

None of the arguments in this thread have convinced me that there is any reason for a rogue not to take these feats and a frost dagger.

 

[Keenath]

This combo makes Wintertouched worth the feat slot, but I don't see the "amazing combo" here....

CA every round isn't really that big a deal ... It's the 5 extra damage per hit that is probably the more powerful aspect.

But the +5 damage is no combo at all! That's just what Lasting Frost does! A mage could do that with an at-will power without even investing in the weapon...

Anyway, it isn't a big deal. You have to hit twice in a row against the same target. You won't do that often enough to be broken or anything. Adding Wintertouched just puts an additional layer of bonus on if you manage to make the two hits, and it doesn't benefit you until your THIRD consecutive hit, by which point most non-elites are gonna be nearly dead anyway.