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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6070501" data-attributes="member: 87792">At 9th level an assassin should be doing a minimum of d8 (rapier) + d8 (finesse) +5 (Stat) +2 (weapon) + 2 (Bracers) = 2d8+9 on a melee basic attack.  (Note the missing things like Weapon Focus - that's a baseline).  Not quite in thief territory but certainly in nasty high damage territory.Forgetting Attack Finesse is pretty huge <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But assassins only really shine in urban campaigns in my experience.  In campaigns where the ability to walk right up to the enemy and keep stealth until the end of turn is useful as is the poison; with an assassin you can literally walk out across a crowded floor, spend your minor action to drop poison into someone's drink or to douse something they are about to put on, and walk out unnoticed past a double line of guards - all while remaining hidden.  And then jump out of the tower window, fall to the ground, and leap a 20ft gap to race away across the rooftops.  The thief can't even come close to matching this kind of shenanigans although they are better than the assassin at actual combat.</blockquote>