Lead the Attack vs. solo monsters: unbalancing?

[phil500]

This is a warlord daily, level 1.

Lead the attack, STR vs AC, 3[w] damage, until the end of the ENCOUNTER, each ally in a 5 square radius gains a power bonus on attack rolls of 1+int mod.

So if a warlord with int 18 hits, the party will have +5 to attack against this enemy for the rest of the fight.

How can you balance a solo monster around this power? Look at the thread going on right now about the party of level 10s vs. the black dragon. All the math assumes they hit half the time. If this power hits, the math would have to assume the whole party hits 75% of the time.

I cant see how this power hitting doesn't make a fair fight unfair. Any otherwise "balanced" solo monster fight could come down to this one roll.

 

[Simplicity]

It's a daily. Daily powers are strong. Plus, it requires the player to really weaken their warlord in order to accomplish it (18 int is *not* cheap). You could have spent those points on Str... But since you didn't, that Str vs. AC attack is probably going to suck. Especially against a Solo.

 

[Llamas Notsheep]

Given that the 50% hit rate leads to a 2+ hour combat bringing the dragon down to half of hits HP, I'm not sure that's really a problem. Hitting 75% of the time, all else equal, knocks it down from a 4 hour to a 3 hour encounter.

Solo monsters are geared to challenge a well functioning party that knows how to work together. This is one example of working well together.

 

[Mort]

This is a warlord daily, level 1.

Lead the attack, STR vs AC, 3[w] damage, until the end of the ENCOUNTER, each ally in a 5 square radius gains a power bonus on attack rolls of 1+int mod.

So if a warlord with int 18 hits, the party will have +5 to attack against this enemy for the rest of the fight.

How can you balance a solo monster around this power? Look at the thread going on right now about the party of level 10s vs. the black dragon. All the math assumes they hit half the time. If this power hits, the math would have to assume the whole party hits 75% of the time.

I cant see how this power hitting doesn't make a fair fight unfair. Any otherwise "balanced" solo monster fight could come down to this one roll.

All the Solo monsters I've seen so far are nasty, really, really nasty. The kind of nasty where the party has a good chance at a TPK if their not careful. This kind of power balances that out, and it's a daily meaning the Warlord will likely keep it for just this kind of circumstance (if he uses it unwisely he'll likely be sorry).

For example: this is the exact kind of attack that "may" keep Irontooth in Keep on the Shadowfell from wiping out the entire party.

 

[Yaezakura]

Daily powers are SUPPOSED to turn encounters around. There's a reason they can only be used once per day. It's also up to the monster (solos are usually pretty intelligent) to find ways to counteract it.

For instance, dropping the warlord means it no longer gives off that Aura of Awesome. Keeping the Warlord at least 5 squares away from the rest of the party, while difficult, accomplishes it as well.

Lead the Attack simply adds one more tactical consideration to the fight. The heroes fight to keep their Warlord standing and stay within range until the monster is defeated, while the solo has to concentrate on negating their newfound advantage.

 

[phil500]

It's a daily. Daily powers are strong. Plus, it requires the player to really weaken their warlord in order to accomplish it (18 int is *not* cheap)

Daily powers are strong, but should not be win buttons. The 18 isnt terribly expensive with a racial bonus. A 16 is fairly cheap with a racial, and a +4 is almost as encounter breaking.

Solo monsters are geared to challenge a well functioning party that knows how to work together. This is one example of working well together.

So not having a warlord=not knowing how to work together?

This kind of power balances that out.

I dont see how it balances it out. Any solo encounter that is actually a good challenge will be made way too easy if this power hits.

For instance, dropping the warlord means it no longer gives off that Aura of Awesome.

Does it? I dont see anything in the description that says that. Seems like its a "bless" spell- all the ones in range get it for the duration.

 

[Yaezakura]

Does it? I dont see anything in the description that says that. Seems like its a "bless" spell- all the ones in range get it for the duration.

Nope. The way powers like that work is that for the rest of the encounter, any ally within range gets the bonus. Not every ally who was within range when the power was used. So if the Warlord drops, so does his bonus.

Even though powers such as this don't use the Aura keyword (as they're not permanent features) think of them as temporary auras. If the user drops, he's no longer generating the effect.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I'd say a solo monster's quintupple hit points leave him quite nicely balanced against such an ability. I get the impression that a lot of dailies are meant to deal specifically with certain kinds of hard encounters. A hard solo calls for Lead the Attack or Pin the Foe. A hard Commander & Troops (minions) encounters calls for a controller's area daily. Beacon of Hope can certainly come in handy in a hard fight.

If you throw down such a daily against an easy encounter of the same type, it'd make for a swift victory, of course. But, your daily is gone.


Also, 18 is pretty high for a secondary stat, even if it's a racial enhancement - an eladrin or teifling warlord. The Warlord's 18 is more likely in STR, and his INT's more like 14 or 16.

 

[Family]

That is how my group beat Irontooth, his guards went down to Lead the Attack and then the Narcomancer got him.

 

[phil500]

Even though powers such as this don't use the Aura keyword (as they're not permanent features) think of them as temporary auras. If the user drops, he's no longer generating the effect.

OK this is interesting, I am new to 4E so I wasnt aware of this- where is this explained in the core rulebooks?

I guess it would take it from unbalancing to friking awesome.

I'd say a solo monster's quintupple hit points leave him quite nicely balanced against such an ability..

Again, this argument ignores this basic fact:

If it is a FAIR fight without this power, its an EASY one if it hits. Hence, it is unbalancing.