Leadership as a skill

[Dingleberry]

I'm new to this forum. Apologies in advance if this topic has been done to death. Feel free to link me to relevant past threads. With that out of the way...

I like the mechanics of Leadership in 3E, but I don't like having to burn a feat to get cohorts/followers - largely because none of my players seem to be pulling the trigger on it.

I'm therefore considering adding a Leadership skill to the 3E campaign I'm running. It would be trained only, and a class skill for all PC classes. It would work just like the feat, except the Leadership score is ranks in Leadership plus Cha modifier. If you also take the Leadership feat, you add your character level as well (a substantial perk for taking the feat). The Leadership score modifiers from the DMG still apply.

All my players are over 6th level, but I'd probably still write in the "can't attract until 6th level" prereq, i.e., you could take ranks in the skill, but couldn't use them until 6th.

Without the feat, the cohort's level is limited to the leader's ranks in the skill. With the feat, it's the greater of ranks and character level.

Thoughts? I'd prefer to not just be shown alternate systems, unless you also tell my WHY they're better than mine.

 

[Dingleberry]

Dang. I knew I should've picked a more provocative thread title. Would "ALL NUDE Leadership as an ALL NUDE skill" have gotten a response by now?

(bump - and apologies to Eric's grandmother)

 

[CRGreathouse]

Would "ALL NUDE Leadership as an ALL NUDE skill" have gotten a response by now?

Probably. I think the best attention-getter would have been "Leadership got the shaft?".

I think your general idea is good, but the idea of stacking the ranks and character level makes my blood run cold. I'd like to see a different way of doing it.

 

[Al]

If your PCs are ignoring Leadership, then it's not the feat that is the problem, it is the players.

Leadership is commonly acknowledged to be one of the strongest feats in the game. Some even use it as a counter-example for Charisma getting the proverbial shaft. Compared to Weapon Focus, which grants a +1 to hit with a single weapon, the utility of a cohort is definitely not to be underestimated. A spellcasting cohort can use buff spells on you to provide a much greater bonus that this, and a martial cohort dishes out damage equivalent to more than the +1 to hit would grant you. Balanced against that, of course, there is the xp-hit, treasure-sharing and risk factor, but on balance Leadership is a strong feat.

As for your fix, I have to agree with CRGreathouse. With Leadership as a class skill, there are few classes who would not take it permanently maxed-out: this counts doubly for classes with many skill points. Why would a rogue take, say, Disable Device, when he can simply get a cohort with Disable Device (who could take a Skill Focus to make up the level difference) and still gain all the other benefits of having a cohort. As for allowing the feats for character level to stack with skill points, this effectively means that the character would permanently have a cohort just one level lower, almost irrespective of negative modifiers and Charisma.

Simply put, Leadership is fine as it is. I don't think many people have had a problem with it being underpowered. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

 

[Dingleberry]

Thanks for the comments. I agree that there is definitely a risk that stacking the skill and the feat could get out of control, but I'm not very concerned about it in my current campaign since (1) I'd be introducing it to 9th- and 10th-level characters, and (2) I still don't think any of them will take the feat.

But keeping it conceptual rather than campaign-specific, do you think making it a cross-class skill would be a sufficient control?

I included the stacking component because I don't want players who actually take the feat to lose the benefit of their skill ranks, and vice-versa. What if I eliminated the Leadership feat entirely, but included a "Reputation" feat that granted a bonus to Leadership score?

Another idea I was kicking around would be to require skill checks for the use of the Leadership skill, i.e., you roll when you want to attract a cohort and/or followers, and the success of the roll determines the cohort level and follower level and number. It would require a fair amount of time (days/weeks?), no take 10, and no retries in the same location.

 

[Ravellion]

What if I eliminated the Leadership feat entirely, but included a "Reputation" feat that granted a bonus to Leadership score?

<sarcasm>Oooh! Like Skill Focus?</sarcasm>

Rav

 

[Dingleberry]

<sarcasm>Oooh! Like Skill Focus?</sarcasm>

Except Skill Focus applies to skill checks, and as I originally described it, there aren't any with the Leadership feat. The Leadership score is just a number, to which the Reputation bonus (be it +2 or something else) would apply.

Good thing I always check the batteries in my sarcasm detector the weekend we turn the clocks back.