Leadership, Cohorts, ECL

[Vlos]

I am currently looking at playing a Dragon PC which has an ECL of +4. I had originally planned on taking levels in Paladin and swap the mount that they get for a rider. But without any rules my GM suggested I go fighter and take leadership.

Now the question is I am only level 12 with an ECL of 16. My leadership score will allow me to get a Cohort of level 12.

So Question is Does a characters ECL determine the max level of a Cohort or is actual level?

Now thoughts on this:

- If it does not, then I am getting a sub par Cohort. Logic being I am effectively a 16 level toon, but my cohort is lower level a normal 16 level toon with my stats and leadership.

- If it is his actual level and the ECL does not come in to effect I would think I would then be able to take a Cohort with an ECL, thus his actual level is lower than it should be. To push that to the extream I could take a race with a very high ECL as a cohort and get a very powerful toon.


My Opinion:
I would think ECL does effect the levels on both sides, and thus all rules apply using ECL.


Thanks for input.

 

[Ottergame]

I say it's dependant on his actual character level, since just about everything else is. He is considered to be a level 12 character in all respects except XP advancement.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

I think Ottergame is right.

Your Cohort can't become more powerful by taking any template and gaining ECL.
E.G.:
Human FTR 14 and Half-celestial Half-Human Fighter 10 both count as 14th Lvl Cohorts, there is no gain by having an Cohort with ECL.

 

[Vlos]

Ok, from what ottergame says, ECL does not effect leadership. So My Dragon PC is a 12th level toon. So then a 10th level Cohort with an ECL of +3 is still a 10 level Cohort (by that logic) and not a 13th level cohort.

Blacknight is saying that ECL does effect it, thus my Dragon PC is a 16th level pc 12 + 4 ECL, so I could have a 12th level PC. I could even have a 14th level cohort if my leadership score is right.


I need arguments or opinions which one is right? I would lean towards Blacknight because otherwise ECL could be abused. I do not see it being a mix of the two. True level for me no ECL, yet ECL effecting the cohort.

Please any more thoughts?

 

[James McMurray]

In my campaign we use ECL for pretty much everything character level related, and haven't had any problems yet.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

As a 12th level Half Dragon, I would say you count as 16th level for the purposes of what level cohort you could attract.

The level of the cohort would also include any +ECL modifier the cohort had, eg if you could attract a 14th level cohort, you could attract a 10th level Half Dragon cohort.

Not sure if the printed rules back me up on this, but it seems fair.

 

[xeno_eleusis]

I think there is an additional rule limiting Cohorts to at most
two character levels below his leader. This is a rule to be
applied at all times, meaning that a Cohort cannot level past
two levels under his leader. I'm not sure how that affects the
ECL of the Cohort, or even if it is considered. But I also remember
it mentioning something about, no limitations on the class or race
of your Cohort.

 

[Conaill]

I'd say to use ECL both for calculating the leardership score and for cohort level. Using ECL for neither can get wacky, because you could indeed have a cohort who is a much more powerful character than his leader. Using ECL for only one of the two is inconsistent, but at the very least you would need to use ECL for the cohort.

PS: for NPC's, I would strongly recommend using CR for calculating the leadership score. Otherwise intelligent critters such as dragons could never have cohorts unless they take character levels as well. Using HD as "level" for leadership score can also lead to super-powerful cohorts, such as a young red dragon (CR 7) with a Wiz11 "cohort".

 

[Epametheus]

ECL is meant to be a penalty. Your PCs ECL wouldn't count towards the highest-level cohort you could have, but it would count in towards the cohorts level. So the L12 Half-dragon with a 16 ECl could have an 11th level cohort -- or a 7th level half-dragon with an ECL of 11.

 

[James McMurray]

Even if it is factored into leadership, ECL is still a penalty, because its level you have to keep track of for XP purposes, but that don't gant extra hit points, BAB, saves, or skill points. Making it also never count for anything character level related makes it even more of a penalty, tot eh point of being near worthless for some characters. If that's how you want ECL to function in your games though, its ok.