Leadership

[Question]

Its not stated anywhere in the description. Who controls the cohort?

Most DMs i know ban the feat because they dont want the party size to get larger, or they dont want a player taking it so he can get the benefits of 2 PCs at once. Does the cohort calculate into CR encounters?

 

[BlueBlackRed]

For one, Leadership can give the PC any number of cohorts, though I've never seen a PC have more than one.

As for who controls what, I've not seen any rules for that.
IME the player controls the cohort during combat and the DM role-plays the cohort.

 

[frankthedm]

Its not stated anywhere in the description. Who controls the cohort?

Most DMs i know ban the feat because they dont want the party size to get larger, or they dont want a player taking it so he can get the benefits of 2 PCs at once. Does the cohort calculate into CR encounters?

It is still an NPC, thus the DM controls it. The Cohort acts with the Best wishes of their leader[not always the leader's party] in mind so it is not unreasoanble to let the player to control the cohort. At least not until the player tries to have the cohort start adhering to the PC's desires telepathicly without having some sort of Telepathy.

Cohorts do not count for CR calculations, they are not XP sponges. They are a feat based extension of the PC.

There are even arguments a Cohort for an NPC do not count for XP since the Cohort was paid for with the NPC's feat.

 

[mvincent]

It is still an NPC, thus the DM controls it.

While I generally agree, I believe the DMG (but not the SRD) actually states that the chort is controlled by the player (anyone have a DMG handy to quote it)?

Cohorts do not count for CR calculations, they are not XP sponges. They are a feat based extension of the PC

Per the SRD, that is correct (even though the DMG implies otherwise).

There are even arguments a Cohort for an NPC do not count for XP since the Cohort was paid for with the NPC's feat.

That would typically be unfair. From the 3.5 FAQ:
"Example 1: Over the course of many days, a powerful
necromancer stocks his lair with undead created via spells.
When the PCs fight the necromancer and these undead
minions, the necromancer has his full array of spells, so the act
of creating these undead hasn’t reduced the challenge he
provides. Thus, the Sage recommends awarding full XP for
defeating the undead."
Example 2: The same necromancer is on the run, knowing
the PCs aren’t far behind. He spends some of his precious daily
allotment of spells to animate a few zombies, only minutes
before the PCs bust down his door and attack. That’s a lot more
like summoning, since the creation of the undead represents a
direct drain on the necromancer’s immediately available
resources. Still, he doesn’t have to spend any rounds of combat
casting the spells, so it’s not quite the same. The Sage
recommends awarding one-half XP for defeating the undead.
Example 3: An evil cleric uses lesser planar ally to call a
succubus to serve him as a spy for 7 days, and sends her up
against the PCs (without being present himself). The Sage
recommends awarding full XP for defeating the succubus."

Additionally, certain feats can allow one to acquire dragon cohorts or even whole armies. Encountered by themselves, these allies would certainly be worth XP. If the DM is worried about the BBEG wasting a feat, then he should just assign him allies without requiring the feat (which he is free to do, and is in fact the most common method of creating adventures).

 

[frankthedm]

Additionally, certain feats can allow one to acquire dragon cohorts or even whole armies. Encountered by themselves, these allies would certainly be worth XP. If the DM is worried about the BBEG wasting a feat, then he should just assign him allies without requiring the feat (which he is free to do, and is in fact the most common method of creating adventures).

I'd still rather deal with a dragon's fancy toady, then suffer an unfun and probably deadly combat with a dragon with Combat expertice and improved trip :\ . If we are going non core, then practiced spellcaster means the tanks will have to cut through a mage armor and sheild the casters might not take down with a dispel magic.

 

[mvincent]

I'd still rather deal with a dragon's fancy toady, then suffer an unfun and probably deadly combat with a dragon with Combat expertice and improved trip :\ . If we are going non core, then practiced spellcaster means the tanks will have to cut through a mage armor and sheild the casters might not take down with a dispel magic.

I think you might be missing the point. You can make examples where the cohort is less powerful than a feat, but you there a plenty of examples (draconic cohort, army of cohorts, etc.) where the allies acquired through feats can actually be more powerful than the BBEG altogether.

And what if (for example) the party meets the "fancy toady" by itself and kills it? Do they get no XP? Depriving them of XP is a needless way of handling it, and can irritate players. Better to just let the BBEG keep his feats and assign him allies as desired (i.e. the traditional way).

 

[Kieperr]

Our group allows the player to control the cohort, but with DM input when necessary to keep the player from having the cohort doing things it normally would not (Fred, charge that army of orcs so I can escape!). Cohorts are not automatons. As for the CR, yes, cohorts count. Cohorts, unlike the FAQ example, are not created, animated, or summoned by the PC's use of magic. They are actual individuals that seek out the PC in order to serve them in some way. Cohorts, as noted, are NPCs and, as such, have their own CRs.

 

[lukelightning]

And what if (for example) the party meets the "fancy toady" by itself and kills it? Do they get no XP?

That's how toadies survive. They wear shirts that say "Zero XP."

 

[mvincent]

That's how toadies survive. They wear shirts that say "Zero XP."

Those don't come in red, do they...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Our group allows the player to control the cohort, but with DM input when necessary to keep the player from having the cohort doing things it normally would not (Fred, charge that army of orcs so I can escape!).

We don't use cohorts for that... we use PCs whose players are absent

-Hyp.