Leap Attack + Combat Brute

[Bloodweaver1]

I have question with a certain feat chain and was I hoping to get some opinions/advise on.
Here is the situation in a nut shell
Class: Pyshic Warrior
Level: 15 BaB: 11-6-1
Magical Equip: Boots of speed; Sword of speed
Psionic Power: Psionic Lion’s Charge
Brief Description: “…When you charge, you can make a full attack in the same round. You can manifest this power with an instant thought, quickly enough to gain the benefit of the power as you charge…”


Summary Descriptions of the two feats: (assume all pre-reqs have been met)
Leap Attack (CA)
When charging, if a successful jump check DC 10 (I think) is made you can use your power attack ability with modifiers of x1.5 w/ one handed weapons and x3 with two handed weapons.
Combat Brute (CW)
Momentum swing: During a charge if you used your power attack ability with a -5 or greater penalty. In your next round, if you again use -5 or greater power attack all of your attacks received a modifier of x1.5 w/ one handed weapons and x3 with two handed weapons.


As you can see individually and combined with no outside variables these feats are pretty self explanatory. My question/delema comes into play when I start adding in extra attacks when using these feats. If I use Leap Attack + Psionic Lion’s Charge + Boots of speed + Sword of speed with my power attack at -5 do all or some of my 5 attacks get the new modifier? And then can I do the same thing again in the following round w/ Combat Brute in stead of Leap Attack?


I understand that the later question is a bit more straight-forward than the first but none the less I felt that it still needed to be asked.


Thanks in advance!


-BW

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Note that the extra attack from the boots of speed and the sword of speed don't stack (and wouldn't stack with a haste spell or bracers of the quick strike either).

However, by the RAW, it seems like the rest would work. 4 attacks with 3xpenalty power attack damage on both the first round (and the second round if your opponent survives the first).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well, strictly, a Charge is moving up to twice your speed with a single melee attack at the end.

With Psionic Lion's Charge, in the same round that you Charge - move up to twice your speed with a single melee attack at the end - you can make a full attack in the same round.

So you get the Leap Attack modifiers on the attack you make as part of your charge. Then, in the same round, you can also make a full attack (+11/+11/+6/+1), but since your charge concludes with the single melee attack, you don't gain the Leap Attack benefits.

If Lion's Charge stated that the single attack at the end of a charge was replaced with a full attack, you'd only get four attacks (not one plus four), but the feats would apply to all four. Instead, the power as written effectively grants you two full round actions - a charge (move plus one attack) and a full attack (four attacks) in the same round.

-Hyp.

 

[Bloodweaver1]

Please by all means correct me if I am wrong. But I was under the impression that Boots of speed and a sword of speed would stack. Boots of Speed gives you one extra partial action (which could be used for an attack) a round for 10 rounds and a sword of speed gives you an extra attack at the end of a round at your highest BaB.

Please don’t tell me that I just dreamed that up?



Also, if you plan on using combat brute after your leap attack why would all you extra attacks on the leap attack not get the power attack modifier but all of your attacks on the combat brute would? Logically that doesn’t make sense to me… and just trying to visualize it… doesn’t help either. Am I just looking to hard? :\

 

[Hypersmurf]

Please don’t tell me that I just dreamed that up?

You're using the 3E rules for Haste, in conjunction with 3.5 feats.

In 3.5, Haste doesn't grant extra partial actions. It grants an extra attack in a full attack action... which doesn't stack with the extra attack in the full attack action granted by the weapon of Speed.

Of course, even in 3E, the Speed ability stated: A weapon of speed allows the wielder one single extra attack each round at the wielder’s highest bonus. It is not cumulative with haste.

Also, if you plan on using combat brute after your leap attack why would all you extra attacks on the leap attack not get the power attack modifier but all of your attacks on the combat brute would?

The two abilities are completely different.

Leap Attack only works during your charge. Momentum Swing only works on the round after you charge. The full attack from Lion's Charge is not during your charge (so Leap Attack does not apply), but it is in the same round that you charge (so Momentum Swing does not apply).

-Hyp.

 

[Coredump]

Note that Hyp does say 'strictly' speaking. My crystal ball says the intention of the feat was not to add a full attack, but rather to replace the single attack with a full attack as part of the charge action. (Hence Lion, ala pounce)

If you (or your DM) sees it this way, than it makes sense (as even hyp says) for all 4 attacks with the charge to get the 1.5/3 multiplier.


As for the strict rules making sense you to.... they are rules. It is the same as being surronded by 8 bad guys, killing one with a mighty blow, and then cleaving into the next one....that is directly behind you. Make sense? not really. But dems what da rules be sayin.

 

[Hypersmurf]

(Hence Lion, ala pounce)

Actually...

Pounce (Ex): When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack—including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability.

CHARGE
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move.

Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack.

So when a creature with the Pounce special attack makes a charge - a special full round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and make a single melee attack during the action - it can follow with a full attack.

As written, the full attack from the Pounce ability follows the charge... and the charge is move-plus-one-attack.

-Hyp.

 

[Coredump]

Cool, I stand corrected.

I still believe that the 'intent' of Pounce (and Lion charge) was to replace the one attack with a full attack, not add to it. But that is clearly not what the rules actually state.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

And now for the million dollar question... does even Hypersmurf play the game that way? Or is this only an example trotted out to demonstrate why slavish adherence to the RAW can be a bad thing?

As written, the full attack from the Pounce ability follows the charge... and the charge is move-plus-one-attack.

-Hyp.

 

[Bloodweaver1]

And now for the million dollar question... does even Hypersmurf play the game that way? Or is this only an example trotted out to demonstrate why slavish adherence to the RAW can be a bad thing?

One may never know.......... {que in the Twilight Zone Music}

Thanks for the help everyone, in my dreaming state I obviously got my definations confused. Even with the clarification this feat combination does have some promise after all. I'll just have to remember that if the creature doesn't drop in the first two rounds.... run!