Learn about D&D organized play options

Obryn

Hero
Someone on another site noticed this on the new article:

"Most other rewards that are presented on certificates are non-tradable, as well as a small number of very special magic items. If you pick up a faction pack at your store during D&D Encounters, you'll get a few of these special, non-item certificates."

Is this Fortune Cards, take two? Or something else? Because it sounds like booster packs for your D&D character. I hope it's not that, mind you, but I can't parse it any other way.
 

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The_Baldman

Explorer
Not in any way shape or form. There are factions in the game. A faction pack I believe is just a cool little starter kit I believe for your character. We all like cool little free things.
 

Alphastream

Adventurer
look at the numbers LG pulled.. you could play them at home or at conventions... the model was amazingly successful..
why the hell did they abandon it
The numbers LG pulled at its best were lower than the numbers of players LFR had as its best. As with all organized campaigns, changes were made to improve what is offered. While any individual has things they like more or less about a particular program (or time in a program), overall there were really some great changes with LFR over LG.

Ultimately, I don't think there is any question that LG will be remembered by most as a better campaign overall than LFR. But, the reasons why are complex and don't contradict LFR's improvements. No campaign should simply return to what LG provided.

When it was partly my job to design a campaign it was perfectly clear to me that I was making imperfect choices. Think of it as moving sliders between different variables, but as you do it you fix something while breaking something else. That's just part of the job description. And you really don't know how everything will pan out until you see it for about a year out in the wild and how players respond. I was constantly surprised by what worked and didn't work in the campaign. Some of the things that worked the best were things that I would have, back during the LG days, reacted to negatively. While providing feedback to admins is great, none of us really know how the campaign will feel until we are part of it long enough that we can see how everyone adapts.
 

sidonunspa

First Post
Ultimately, I don't think there is any question that LG will be remembered by most as a better campaign overall than LFR. But, the reasons why are complex and don't contradict LFR's improvements. No campaign should simply return to what LG provided.

If you count individual play numbers in a specific adventure then I may give that to you, but I know what I saw at conventions, store game days, and a local cons... 4e events (not even counting LFR) always seemed to pull less players and less tables then LG did.

for example, in Florida, MegaCon would require 3 or 4 rooms to run LG events, which at the height of LFG only required half of a large room, even to run a special BI event.

LG players seemed much more involved in the story, I always felt a particular lack of passion among LFG players.

And while I don't think they should recreate LG from whole cloth.... I think they should do something to bring back that feeling of ownership.... in Florida we WHERE the PoU and we felt like what we did mattered... unless you are VERY quick to respond to player events (3 months tops) then players start to feel disconnected from events. With LG we felt changes over the span of weeks sometimes.

And yes, I know how HARD it can be to respond to player input/events, we strived to give players almost immediate impact in the Living Arcanis campaign... and it was a pain in the ass, but it was worth it.

I also loved the way LC would run their organizations, you could get in through adventures or be invited by a fellow player who happen to be a member of such a group, Rp'n out being someone squire for an entire convention to gain membership in a Knight hood is the stuff cool RP'n stories are made of...

I also fear the lack of home play options will do more harm then good... I already know two tables worth of people who are skipping out on the Adventurers League because where are far more interested in D&D Expeditions then the published adventures, So they already said they are sticking to Pathfinder...

sorry, running games at a store is fun and all... but when you have 4 tables of people in close proximity (most stores are not all that big) it can get loud and crowded.. doing that every week... not for many players.
 

Alphastream

Adventurer
If you count individual play numbers in a specific adventure then I may give that to you, but I know what I saw at conventions, store game days, and a local cons... 4e events (not even counting LFR) always seemed to pull less players and less tables then LG did.
That's because LFR was much more than the convention scene. Interestingly, at the start of LFR WotC was on a strange anti-convention kick - a time when the policies they changed really eroded support for convention play. There were very few reasons to attend conventions at that time. BUT, there was decent convention play and even greater home play. The numbers of players and adventure runs were all bigger than LG.

But, that's also not necessarily how we should judge program success.
Which campaign was better, across its lifetime, at creating evangelists that were champions for D&D? LG
Which campaign had a greater connection between plot, characters, and players? LG (the real winner is Living Death!)
Which campaign was accessible, bringing in many new/casual/inactive players out to try the game? LFR (though Encounters was/is far better!)
Which campaign spread the brand best? LFR (but Encounters is far better)
Which campaign sold D&D product best? LFR (but Encounters was better)

The measuring stick we use completely changes the picture. In designing a campaign, you should look at all of these and more in deciding how to 'adjust the sliders' for the type of campaign you want to create. I'm overall really happy with how AL is designed.

I think they should do something to bring back that feeling of ownership.... in Florida we WHERE the PoU and we felt like what we did mattered... unless you are VERY quick to respond to player events (3 months tops) then players start to feel disconnected from events. With LG we felt changes over the span of weeks sometimes.
Agreed. BUT, we will probably never return fully to the level of connection that LG had. LG at times had connections to individual players. We saw this in the Geoff region a score of times - a single player could impact the campaign. I loved that, but it also really hurt the campaign. There is a very sweet spot in between LFR's mercenary 'play and forget' adventures and LG's 'the invested who are friends with the Triad get to do really cool stuff'. I think AL really recognizes that.

And yes, I know how HARD it can be to respond to player input/events, we strived to give players almost immediate impact in the Living Arcanis campaign... and it was a pain in the ass, but it was worth it.
I've sat down at an Arcanis table, paused to ask for an explanation of the plot, listened, paused to ask again, and given up. The game can be so rich and so deep and so personal that it is no longer accessible to a new player. It can push people away. I know Living Arcanis has been and is great - but I also know it won't work for me as a casual player, given that I want to be more than an ignorant player rolling dice. For Arcanis to respond to me I really need to invest in it. That's a strength and a drawback. I would argue that for DnD the slider needs to be adjusted to reward the heavily invested, but to keep play far more accessible.

Adventurers League is clearly working to correct issues with both LG and LFR. An individual can make a difference, but not because they know someone in their region/faction/whatever. The Faction system gives you a home, but it isn't geographically bound/exclusionary. Events are responsive, but consistently so rather than bound by regional staff. Adventures provide you with perks, even unique ones, but there are controls to make sure new and casual players get fair treatment. Conventions get premiere events, stimulating the convention scene once more. Epics stimulate the big cons once more as a place to have a special impact. Story matters.

Those are all really good changes, and in line with many of the aspects that the more invested got out of LG, but without many of the drawbacks.
 

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
Agreed. BUT, we will probably never return fully to the level of connection that LG had. LG at times had connections to individual players. We saw this in the Geoff region a score of times - a single player could impact the campaign. I loved that, but it also really hurt the campaign. There is a very sweet spot in between LFR's mercenary 'play and forget' adventures and LG's 'the invested who are friends with the Triad get to do really cool stuff'. I think AL really recognizes that.
Let me say that I still like most of what AL is doing and will definitely be a part of it. However, as far as I can tell from everything presented that AL is still very much 'play and forget'. You can play through the main adventure at home while still having a legal AL character. And from the sounds of it, your character may go away or end when the "Season" is finished. There's still no word on it other than the first season appears to get you to level 10 or so if you play the whole thing and that the next "Season" will have a new plot with a new adventure you'll likely have to buy as the core of the season. Which means even if you get to keep your character, everything that happened during the first season is likely forgotten and unrelated to the second season.

To me, I'm just wondering what the POINT of AL is for me. I mean, if I buy the Tyranny of Dragons adventures and run them as a home game for my friends then why would those friends want to play AL? What benefit does it give them? Other than a couple of more adventures to play in? Couldn't all these adventures just be released online for free with no rules on when and how you can play them without really changing anything?

As far as I can tell the only reason to play these adventures is if you are going to make a trip to a major convention on a regular basis so that you can play in the Epics.

I mean, my friends and I already play in a weekly home game. It seems like if we wanted to play AL, we could set aside a couple of days to play all the adventures. But then there wouldn't be new ones coming out for a while(from the sounds of it) so we'd then have to forget about AL for a couple of months until more adventures come out. It seems like something we'd just forget about and never play any more adventures from because there isn't enough of them to keep our interest.

This is my real issue with AL(and LFR before it). Or rather, I should say my problem with Expeditions. I understand the purpose of Encounters: Provide an easy to get into game that happens regularly at a local store for new and casual people. I understand the point of Epics: Have a cool major event that hundreds of people can take part in. But, Expeditions seems like it doesn't fill any need or even any niche. It's obviously designed for people who are deep enough into D&D that they have a desire to take their character from DM to DM and have a place to play at conventions and at local gaming stores. Normally the only real reason you want to be able to take your character and move it from table to table is because you want to play more often than your DM or friends do so you attend the local store and cons for extra play opportunities. However, the plan is not to have enough adventures to play Expeditions regularly. So, if I can't get together with my group of friends every weekend in order to play Expeditions...then it isn't designed for people like me. It isn't designed for new players. Who is it for? I can only guess that it appears to be designed as a stepping stone for people who got into D&D using Encounters and want something a little more involved but might only want to play one session a month and they don't want to dedicate themselves to a group.

That seems like a very small niche if that's the case. Plus there doesn't appear to be any program at all designed to cater to the dedicated fans.

Conventions get premiere events, stimulating the convention scene once more. Epics stimulate the big cons once more as a place to have a special impact. Story matters.
Here's the real problem. Epics appear to be restricted to only large conventions. The vast majority of people will never attend one of these.

Maybe that's the point, these are designed to be specifically for the hardcore players. If that's the case, and I travel to a convention in order to play in one of these....what do I do the rest of the weekend? Given, I'm a hardcore player and I've likely played all the Expeditions adventures that have been released already in my local store or at a local, small convention. I might be willing to travel to a large convention to play Epics if I could play 3 or 4 of them in a row. However, it sounds like there might only be 1 or 2 Epics per season(as the premiere and maybe end of a storyline).

At the moment, I'm still trying to figure out how Expeditions fits into my life. I'll be going to Gen Con and playing all the currently available Expeditions(all 3 of them) and the only available Epics. When I get home...how do I involve myself further in AL?
 

Thaumaturge

Wandering. Not lost. (He/they)
At the moment, I'm still trying to figure out how Expeditions fits into my life. I'll be going to Gen Con and playing all the currently available Expeditions(all 3 of them) and the only available Epics. When I get home...how do I involve myself further in AL?

I share many of your concerns. I also will be going to GenCon and playing in these events. The best answer I have for your question is that we get back, connect to a game store, and DM those mods for the store. My hope would be that over a few weeks, we'd start to build up a community, so that when the next batch of adventures is released, someone else will DM some.

Thaumaturge.
 

Alphastream

Adventurer
I think that community is a big part of AL's value. Even with Encounters it can be fun to see how different groups tackle the same adventure. With Expeditions you add greater persistence, because you are in the same region and things will likely change. Maybe the church in town is demolished. Maybe an NPC is elevated in power. These developments happen in a home game, but through AL they gain a community. And, you get a chance to impact the campaign and be a part of it.

My initial draw into LG was because I traveled for work. I couldn't take part in a regular home campaign. LG allowed me to play the 'next chapter' whenever I could, and still be part of a story. As I played more, I found advantages. I had not landed a great home group in my area. With LG I played at tons of different tables, meeting a lot of different gamers. That variety was great, plus it eventually introduced me to friends who are incredibly special to me still today. From all these gamers I learned a ton of techniques. It made me a better player and DM to be part of such a vast community. After a while I wanted to give back, so I started helping with playtests and writing small pieces. Then I began writing adventures and administering meta-orgs. Then I became an admin and an author for published works. At every step, there was a community hook that made that possible.
 

Mirtek

Hero
I mean, my friends and I already play in a weekly home game.
Then you don't need AL
But, Expeditions seems like it doesn't fill any need or even any niche. It's obviously designed for people who are deep enough into D&D that they have a desire to take their character from DM to DM and have a place to play at conventions and at local gaming stores.
Yes
Normally the only real reason you want to be able to take your character and move it from table to table is because you want to play more often than your DM or friends do so you attend the local store and cons for extra play opportunities.
Or those that don't have a DM or frieds who play D&D with them. There are people who simply do not have the luxury of a home game going on. For them the monthly visit to the local store is the only chance to play D&D. E.g. during LG times I had no chance to play D&D regularily. I played 3-4 LG adventures per year and that was all the D&D play I had. Yet due to the nature of D&D even that little play was at least all part of a continuous campaign and allowed me to proceed up to level 7 with my rarely played character.
However, the plan is not to have enough adventures to play Expeditions regularly.
Actually I think that this is the plan. They just won't have them ready at launch. LG and LFR also came out with only a few adventures at launch and they needed time to build up a bigger pool of adventures
 

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
I think that community is a big part of AL's value. Even with Encounters it can be fun to see how different groups tackle the same adventure. With Expeditions you add greater persistence, because you are in the same region and things will likely change. Maybe the church in town is demolished. Maybe an NPC is elevated in power. These developments happen in a home game, but through AL they gain a community. And, you get a chance to impact the campaign and be a part of it.
I agree with this for the most part. But I believe the community feel is lost with the new rules put into effect. Most people feel that in a campaign where 10,000 people are playing and the results of any particular storyline are entirely decided by the 500 of them that go to Origins, Gen Con, and PAX that normal people have no real effect over the campaign. It doesn't matter what most people contribute because they don't matter.

We had that feeling to a lesser degree in LG, for sure. There were people here in Winnipeg who felt the entire region of Ket was decided by people living in or around Toronto only. But I think that's because our region was too large.

Whereas in a home game your actions directly affect the outcome of the story. I actually think this one is a negative for Organized Play. It's been something we work AROUND rather than a benefit of the campaign.

My initial draw into LG was because I traveled for work. I couldn't take part in a regular home campaign. LG allowed me to play the 'next chapter' whenever I could, and still be part of a story.
For me, this was the initial draw as well. I heard good things about LG and made up a character and played 2 or 3 adventures for fun here in Winnipeg. But I wasn't sure if I was going to keep playing LG or not. It seemed like a glorified home game with a bunch of disadvantages. Then I traveled to Australia for a year. I didn't know anyone and I felt a little lost. But then I found out that they were running LG and my character was legal and could join their adventures. It immediately gave me a game I could play in weekly and play 2 adventures a week to satisfy my D&D cravings.

Not only that, but the flavor of their adventures were different than the ones from Ket. I got to be the guy who was the strange foreigner with a different culture. Which was great, because I often felt like that in real life while I was there, so it helped to play my character that way as well. I played up the difference between my culture and theirs over and over again. I told stories of the strange country none of them could experience unless they visited our country in real life. It was an experience. Part of what made it exciting is that when I returned home I had stories to tell of my character visiting a strange land and could bring back tales of the events happening in a country none of them would ever see. But the events happening over there still affected things happening here because the Triads would speak to each other and metaregional plots caused some results of stories happening in other regions to bleed into others. It felt like we were all connected...but not all precisely equal. I got a real benefit that other people didn't by traveling. Much like the benefit of traveling in real life. I got to see and experience things that I couldn't at home.

As I played more, I found advantages. I had not landed a great home group in my area. With LG I played at tons of different tables, meeting a lot of different gamers. That variety was great, plus it eventually introduced me to friends who are incredibly special to me still today. From all these gamers I learned a ton of techniques. It made me a better player and DM to be part of such a vast community.
I agree 100%. However, I think LG had such a community because of how invested the players were. It attracted the best DMs and players because it was the type of campaign that catered to the people who loved D&D the most. Therefore, those people were the most likely to have the most experience running and playing the game. They showed up every week and tried their absolute best to keep the campaign going because they really believed in it and enjoyed it. New people showed up periodically, but the only ones to stay were the ones who REALLY liked D&D enough to want to dedicate their time to the campaign.

That's what made the community great. It was entirely made up of people who would take their lunch break at a gaming convention and discuss the differences between their run of an adventure and someone else's run of the same adventure. They compared the way they defeated the monsters, the interesting things that people did in order to solve the puzzles, and so on. Even between games, what was on their mind was LG.

The campaign worked BECAUSE it catered to invested people.

Contrast this to LFR that no longer catered to invested people. We attempted to run it the same way. We ran a weekly games day with 2 or 3 adventures every Saturday. We ran out of new adventures so quickly that the entire community of people had played all the adventures available about 3 times each by the end of the first year. Then people started showing up, finding out that there were no new adventures and going home rather than playing. They didn't show up again the next week. Some of them never came again.

Adding to this was the disaffection that people were feeling because of the new rule that allowed people to create characters at higher level, which caused people to feel the effort they put into their existing characters was a waste because the game no longer felt persistent. People felt that there used to be a reward for showing up every week. You got access to the higher level adventures that no one else did unless they equally dedicated their time. Now, what was the point?

Our numbers kept dwindling over time and by the end of the 2nd year, I was calling people up and home and begging them to come so we could have a minimum table of 4 in order to run a game each week. Which I felt was my responsibility because if I didn't make sure there was at least one game every week then the campaign would essentially have 0 presence in our city. After about 3 months of that, even calling people up at home failed and we couldn't form tables, so we stopped showing up entirely. I haven't played LFR in nearly 3 years now(Except at Gen Con). Neither has anyone else in our city since I was the one organizing it. Maybe there are secretly a bunch of people ordering adventures for home play, but I doubt it. I know most of the D&D players in the city.

The community died entirely because the most invested felt like the campaign was not for them.

After a while I wanted to give back, so I started helping with playtests and writing small pieces. Then I began writing adventures and administering meta-orgs. Then I became an admin and an author for published works. At every step, there was a community hook that made that possible.
Yeah, I was the same way. I became a Triad member for LG because I wanted to become more involved. I applied for LFR admin at Gen Con the year the campaign was announced because I was super excited to have a campaign based around a more balanced rule set while still having everything I loved about LG. I became an admin, helped to edit and write a couple of adventures. I tried to make LFR the best campaign it could be.

However, it was readily clear that what caused me to want to play LG in the first place was precisely what they attempted to remove from LFR. The longer the campaign went on the most of it they wanted to remove. I argued against it but even though the admins were split about 50/50 about whether to allow characters to start at higher levels, WOTC made it clear that they had the final decision and the game was going to be designed more casually so more people could play.

Despite all that, I really had(and still hold on to) high hopes for AL. I applied for the Community Manager position and am looking forward to attempting to run AL at one of the stores in the city. I have heard a bunch of interest already from some of my friends who really want to try it out.

I'm just concerned that it is going to go the way of LFR. Lots of interest for a year before everyone gets frustrated that there's not enough play opportunities followed by everyone leaving.
 

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