Learning How To Roleplay Non-Hack

SHARK

First Post
Greetings!

The was thinking about the lack of real role-playing examples in the DM's guide. There seems to be a great lack of actual adventures/instructions on how exactly to play in a non-hack & slash adventure, and in how to actually run such a scenario, from the DM. For example:

How does a player *know* how to address the King?

How does a DM actually go about structuring and running a scenario where the players must deal with different personalities, passions, conflicting interests, and political details that really, at the end of the day, have nothing to do with AC, or fireballs, but far more in who the characters are as people, what they believe in, and what they say, and how they say it, and the kinds of choices they make in who they befriend someone, and *how*.

Then, of course, as obvious as it may seem, but apparently there are great mysteries involved, how would a player learn how to roleplay his character in dealing with his fiance's father? How would the DM learn to run such encounters, and actually organize the social interactions?

Of course, this kind of interaction isn't restricted to the standard four characters, and the DM's guide really only gives such advice about looting dungeons, but little to say on how to make one's way in the court of the God-King.

The kind of "adventures" is really a misnomer, because it doesn't fall neatly into those expectations. Nary a sword need be drawn, nor does the firepower of the wizard even come into play. However, all such characters in dealing with different people have different skills and personalities to interact and influence different characters, and the adventure itself.

What are the gains? What are the dangers? Well, many. The rewards and the dangers do not come in the form of being physically attacked or enspelled, but in impressing and befriending the Royal Steward, or not. What does that actually mean, though? If one doesn't manage to make friends with the Royal Steward, and such isn't really done in one session, but several, *that* in itself, is the potential goal of the adventure. Failure to do so, is failing the adventure, and the party may experience simply the social and political opposition of the Royal Steward. They could have gained a powerful ally and friend on the other hand, and both of these such considerations can greatly influence future scenarios--either with the Royal Steward as a friend, or as a growing enemy.

The interaction, however, is not, and need not, ever be physical. It exists in the realm of relationships, alliances, impressions, politics, even down to the points one may score while attending a ball because of the way that they characters dance, oe the costumes that they wear, or the manner in which they handle themselves in a series of detailed and passionate discussions concerning politics and religion in the parlour, with other nobles who are gathered around drinking and smoking, and partaking of the encounter in some fashion, as the Royal Steward looks on--realising that different nobles are being subtly influenced and impressed, or turned off by the player character's performance and passion and skill in expressing themselves.

Do you see what I'm saying? What do you think? What kind of tecniques, skills, and approaches would you think are good in order to *teach* players and DM's alike in how to run and organize such "adventures."?

I know my friend mmadsen will have many excellent ideas to contribute, as he usually inspires my own thoughts.:)

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
 

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I'm a great fan of roleplaying this kind of scenario, but I'm not sure people are ready for it to be a complete "adventure", as it were. There are those on the boards that will say they almost entirely roleplay (no combat) each adventure, but this is the minority. People who do want this are probably playing the wrong game and might want to find a d20 Young and the Restless. :D

But I'm evading your questions. To run such a scenario, my gut feeling is to go point-based. For each opportunity the PC's take to endear themselves to the Steward, they are awarded a number of points depending on their level of success. The DM secretly keeps track of the points (which are compared to a chart set up ahead of time) and once the total reaches a predetermined number (perhaps a DC) then the Steward acts favorably toward the party.

Now such occasions, like the costume ball, can be glossed over with various skill checks such as Bluff and Intimidate. But I see, SHARK, where you might want to get in-depth and find the DMG lacking in suggestions. The point-based system is just one meager suggestion.
 

I think the first thing that limits stuff your talking about shark is player knowledge.

they don't know jack about the people they're supposed to be interacting with...

when my PC's go to the blacksmith its all business talk with flavor of his character... but when they meet a Duke its all flavor with a bit of business.

Players need an outline of the social heirarchy/structure. they need discriptions of the NPC's. they need mannorisms of the NPC's.... etc...

they players need to FULLY understand how their society works... I've met few players who could give any reasonable answers to simple questions like....

Where does the good wool come from?
What baron's lands are furthest north in the kingdom?
Where's the nearest iron mine?
When someone dies, what happens.. (physically.. death customs)?

All of this is a DM's failing IF he's trying to get his PC into role-playing. For simple adventuring, the PC's don't really need to know this and the DM supplies thier needs as the needs arrive.

Supplying those needs in the situations your talking about pretty much removes any interest in those situations.

gah! long mostly incoherant rant... :)

joe b.
 

Trial by fire. It's too easy to say "I'm a 15th level Wizard, bite me." Even if your not playing that kind of game, the OPTION of force is always there. This can cause you to overlook more subtle options even when you are trying.

So set the PC's up in a world where there are no "Adventurers". You cannot legally own weapons or armor, save daggers or a written permit from the local sherrif. Spellcasters are looked over by masters and not left to their own devices. Travelling requires permission, your public attitude alters your reputation, ect.

Run a game where the PC's are merely the NPC classes from the DMG. Force them to live as servants and work around royals, and as royals that must behave in a certain way or find their money, power, and influence gone.

After a few harsh games where their survival depends on roleplaying, it will be easier for both you and them to incorperate it into normal campaigns. Case in point is my group. They try to roleplay, but they enjoy BEATING the bad guy, not just winning. Yet when we play L5R, the "Kick in the door" mentality immediatley ends. The world is set up from the beginning to be dependant on the niceties you are looking for. Since D&D is not set up that way at all, you have to change your player's outlook at the game at a fundamental level.

I think taking most of their normal PC power away from them for a game or two would help. It would also be an interesting game in and of itself.
 
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3rd edition DnD is possibly the worst game (mechanically speaking) to get you where you want to go. It has been designed from the ground-up to be a back-to-basics (i.e., Chainmail origins) sort of game. Other systems tend to work much better for roleplaying purposes.

The DMG only offers substantially two pieces of advice with regards to roleplaying:

1. Beware of confusing a player's charisma, wisdom and intelligence with that of the PC's. Use checks to limit what a PC can do, when they really don't have the skills/ability, when compared to the player.

2. Circumstance bonuses of +2 to +10 for ideas and situations which the player may come up with for his/her character.

If your players are tolerant and don't mind simplicity, these rules could possibly be enough. But, I sense that you're looking for something more...something that's not offered by 3rd edition DnD.
 
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I think that in most RPGs, roleplaying doesn't need mechanical support - although mechanics can certainly encourage or discourage it.

D&D 3E encourages roleplaying through strong class and race archetypes to latch onto (or serve as a foundation to depart from). To a lesser extent, prestige classes provide a mechanical representation of roleplaying hooks, but do so poorly (IMO) because they let the mechanics decide when it's appropriate that a PC can become a "real" version of the chosen archetype. RP skills like "Gather Information" also serve to streamline play by reducing what could be time-consuming roleplay involving monopolisation of the DM's time by single players (the "Netrunner Syndrome", whereby one player does all the stuff while the others get bored) to a single die roll, so that everyone can get on with the story.

Apart from that, it mostly concerns itself with combat and other simulation - as it should, especially given space constraints. As an example of a D&D game with strong roleplaying hooks in the mechanics, the quirks and flaws, honor system, some spells, and the code of the Knight Errant in Hackmaster are designed to actively encourage a certain style of roleplaying. But...because Hackmaster encourages a strongly stylistic kind of roleplaying, it's less likely to fit everyone's taste.

Perhaps 4E will integrate the "background feats" used in the Spelljammer minigame to further provide mechanical hooks for roleplaying, and consider loosening up the prerequisite requirements on prestige classes to better represent campaign reality, rather than stat reality. There's good reasoning to suggest that my PC can't be an Archmage from level 1, but less so to suggest that he can't be a rules-endorsed Assassin from level 1, if that's his background.
 
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Dancing

Once my 1/2 Orc Spell Sword and his Fem human Bard Cohort dazzled a crowd at a ball by rolling like 2 or 3 natural 20's in a row on a dex check to participate in dancing. I said "we dance" to possibly bring some levity to the session but this was just as good. I was just feeling goofy and wanted to make some rolls...I like this kind of stuff. Never thought I would.

My eyes light up as Peter, (the DM) says the crowd parts (ala Soul Train) to watch you two dance together brilliantly...I was almost as stoked about that as I was about winning the duel later with some aristocrat.

These types of things can punctuate an otherwise hack-n-slash game in a fun way.
 

Greetings!

Good stuff! Well, it's nice to see that some people like to play with such detail.:) Of course, while it can sometimes seem like D&D: The Young and The Restless,:) it really can add depth and dimension to the game!

I think that it is frustrating and sad for those who may not have developed such experience and skills, that there is not even the tools and such included in the DMG for those who would like to add such dimensions into their games. It leaves it up to the winds of circumstance that an individual DM and group of players sort of grope in the dark as they learn as they go, without any help in the matter. I'm considering writing a book that would do just that.:)

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
 

Hey SHARK - good topic as always.

I'm running a campaign in Ravenloft in the renissance setting of Dementlieu. I took pains to explain to all the players the nature of this setting. It deviated from normal 'D&D' is several important ways.

- The Demenlieuans are an extremely striated society. While they pride themselves on being enlightened and do indeed have many charities, they are racist and classist. Anyone other than a civilized human would be getting trouble roleplay wise. To my amazement I actually have seven human characters - a first I believe.

- Another little touch is the elimination of 'common'. There is no such language. The characters by default start knowing Mordentish. If they get extra languages, I explain the other tounges and where they are spoken. This actually encouraged a lot more interest in the different regions of Ravenloft.

- I've given them several NPCs - the elder cleric at the temple, the caretaker of their house, and a famous investigator that they have met. One of the three is almost always available to provide exposition.

- My most successful attempt to breathe life into the campaign was the Lucine Herald - an application of Dementlieu's latest invention:the printing press. So, when they discovered some undead hiding in the city amoung Akiri inscriptions (an Egyptian style land) they already knew that the local museum had just gotten a shipment of antiquities from that land and went to investigate. Of course there were other stories in the paper as well that had nothing to do with the adventure.

My next game I'm planning more ways to help connect the characters to the land. There is going to be a problem to be solved, and one of the characters will know how to get passed it. She'll know of a lad at the university that could help the group, but he has a huge crush on her, and she's been avoiding him for several weeks. I'll just pass her a note with this information at the appropriate time.

Truly connecting players to a world takes time and effort, as well as problems you can't swing a sword at!
 

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