Learning new spells

[Ranes]

I'm brewing a new campaign and a couple of other threads in this forum have got me thinking. Despite preparing a list of house rules to deal with problematic spells (for which I'm grateful to Dannyalcatraz, Empirate and Celebrim, among others), I'm not that happy with wizards being able to simply choose the spells they want when they level.

I want to make the rules for research, or copying from scroll or book, the default way for wizards to learn new spells when they level.

I might limit sorcerers and rangers to only being able to learn only those spells they have seen being cast (irrespective of whether or not they identified them with a spellcraft check at the time). I might allow them to be taught by other members of their class.

Druids aren't a problem, because there will be no druids.

Clerics I'm not sure about. I'd like the cloistered cleric to be the default and I'm inclined to let them retain their usual spell acquisition mechanism.

Opinions welcome.

 

[Dandu]

How do you feel about fighters being freely able to learn their feats?

 

[Ranes]

Absolutely happy with that. Thanks for asking.

 

[Dandu]

So what's wrong with spellcasters doing the same?

 

[Ranes]

Nothing at all.

I've just been thinking about wizards and fighters and oft-experienced issues arising from disparities between them at higher levels. I was thinking that, by restricting the wizard's access to new spells a little, it might just take the edge off that perception.

Maybe.

 

[Celebrim]

So what's wrong with spellcasters doing the same?

How do you feel about playing the campaign you want to play and leaving people who want to play a different one to their preferences, even if you don't undestand them?

Ranes asked for opinions. Back off. There's no reason for you to get defensive and snarky. - Piratecat

 

[Ranes]

I don't mind Dandu. I know his shtick. Plus, I did solicit opinions. And it's no bad thing to explain or question your own reasoning.

Edit: no harm done.

 

[Dandu]

~ Oh look, a completely off topic post attempting to derail the thread has had all its text removed. Plane Sailing, ENworld Admin ~

 

[Piratecat]

Ranes, I think that such an approach would strongly discourage me from playing a spellcaster, but I'm notorious for not liking a lot of house rules -- so my opinion is suspect. It does however smack of excessive control. Speaking as a player, it makes the game less fun for me without adding any real benefit. I want to have at least the illusion of choice.

You know, this is how 1e play worked, wasn't it? You couldn't add a new spell unless you researched it or found it on a scroll or in a captured spellbook.

 

[Ranes]

You know, this is how 1e play worked, wasn't it? You couldn't add a new spell unless you researched it or found it on a scroll or in a captured spellbook.

Exactly. But I take your point. I am not a big fan of house rules. My next campaign is likely to have the most I've ever used (nearly a side of A4, 10 pt on 15pt leading).

The problem with fighters at higher levels is not that he can't shatter reality, but that he cannot contribute meaningfully anymore.

Social encounters? No.

Disagree, especially with the variant Intimidate from Frostburn that's based on Strength.

Tracking down artifacts? No.

See my previous answer.

Planar travel? Teleportation? No.

Agreed.

Alright, but this is expected. You're a Fighter. You fight. So how good are you at fighting?

Turns out, no. Not unless you build well, and even then hitting things with a sharp object becomes an increasingly less viable career choice as time goes on.

Note that Tome of Battle melee classes fulfill the same role as a fighter, but can contribute well at higher levels without high levels of optimization and are at less risk of being overshadowed by magic.

Can't stand ToB. There's a genre it evokes that simply disagrees with me.

Also note that spells are only problematic if played a certain way. If unbalanced spells are not used, and the players know enough about the system to avoid stepping on someone else's toes, there is no issue with spellcasters learning spells as they level up.

I absoultely agree. I've been very lucky to have had few players out to exploit or abuse spells, despite having done a lot of DMing at meet-ups and cons. But I have seen legitimate spell (and Sp/Su) usage threaten to cock things up for everyone on occasion.