Learning new spells

[Ranes]

As far as things to do, I do agree that you will have to do something about the fighter. Dandu suggested Tomb of Battle which I agree should be allowed and I want to ask you what genre the Tomb of Battle evokes in you and why you disagree with it.

I am unfamiliar with Tomb of Battle. Perhaps you mean Tome of Battle?

The solution is not in my opinion to restrict casters and try to weaken magic.

My suggestion doesn't weaken magic. It merely requires the wizard to seek out new spells, to boldly... Er, sorry. Getting carried away.

To reason by analogy, the solution is not to bring the rich down to the level of the poor but to raise the poor up to the level of the rich.

Well, that would be equivalent but one way isn't better than the other, unless you're talking about real wealth and poverty, which we're not. And if you look at my previous posts, you'll see that I do not disagree on this.

I don't think that there is a bit of control freakery in every DM.

Well, I was having a laugh there. Perhaps there isn't. But I sometimes think the best DMs are good, partly because of the subtle control they exert, in spite of their almost inevitable protestations to the contrary.

I appreciate everyone's feedback and, if the prevailing reaction to the proposal is negative, I won't do it - unless I find that my next group comprises a clutch of bearded, pipe-smoking, sandal-wearing, pot-bellied real ale drinkers who've recanted sex. They'd definitely be up for it.

 

[Alexander123]

Right, as far as seeking new spells there is an issue with the cleric and druid not having to seek out new spells so you would have to change those classes also.

Generally, I allow access to spells. Since most of my games have centers of civilization you usually have wizard towers with libraries which young wizards can access. It makes sense that this would be the case.

 

[Ranes]

Right, as far as seeking new spells there is an issue with the cleric and druid not having to seek out new spells so you would have to change those classes also.

I said in my initial post that there will be no druids. And I explained later that, although I had reason to be inclined to let the cleric have what PS succinctly called a 'free pass', that I wasn't entirely convinced I wouldn't have to do something about the cleric's spell access as well. But I don't want them to simply be the celestial spouting mirror image of a wizard either.

Generally, I allow access to spells. Since most of my games have centers of civilization you usually have wizard towers with libraries which young wizards can access. It makes sense that this would be the case.

My campaigns always have such conceits, though young wizards are not always welcome. This is because the old wizards who own the towers tend to be bearded, pipe-smoking, sandal-wearing, pot-bellied real ale drinkers who've recanted sex.

 

[BENINHB]

I like the idea of hunting for spells. Remember that they still get a couple free spells per level. Make sure you don't make them pay extra to research these spells, otherwise its a double wammy. Any additional spells would be charged as normal to add to the spell book.

Also, what if you have clerics roll a percentile when they choose there spells for the day. On a very low roll you give them a random spell, a very high roll you give them a spell that will be very useful that day (since you have divine DM foreknowledge) any other roll just give them what they were praying for. These percentiles could be based off of divine caster level. Just because you ask your god for a specific power doesn't mean they feel like giving it to you or that they don't know better than you what you need.

 

[Ranes]

I like the idea of hunting for spells. Remember that they still get a couple free spells per level. Make sure you don't make them pay extra to research these spells, otherwise its a double wammy. Any additional spells would be charged as normal to add to the spell book.

That's the idea, yes. The two new spells per level would still be free but would have to be sourced, rather than simply chosen. Just to reiterate, I don't have a problem with the system as is. My proposal is simply something that crossed my mind as potentially having a couple of benefits and that's why I'm interested in the reactions of as many people as possible.

Also, what if you have clerics roll a percentile when they choose there spells for the day. On a very low roll you give them a random spell, a very high roll you give them a spell that will be very useful that day (since you have divine DM foreknowledge) any other roll just give them what they were praying for. These percentiles could be based off of divine caster level. Just because you ask your god for a specific power doesn't mean they feel like giving it to you or that they don't know better than you what you need.

That is radical. When I consider a potential constraint I ask myself if I would be happy to play within it. It's not guaranteed to get me to make the right decision but, if I wouldn't like the constraint being imposed on me, there's no point proposing it to the players.

I'm not sure I'd be happy with this, were I playing a cleric. I have two concerns. First, either the cleric will not be able to tell the difference between a random spell and another one that's intended to be a better fit for the adventure ahead than her original choice - in which case she might well feel she's been robbed of a spell slot - or she can tell the difference but she still has to accept she might be effectively robbed of a spell slot. Secondly, while I might give the cleric a spell that I consider far more appropriate for an upcoming challenge, than the cleric's original choice, if the players decide to do anything unexpected, my substitute spell could end up being no better than the random one. Considering the risk of disenfranchising the player, I think it might be an over-indulgence of my otherwise under-developed control freakery gland.

 

[Greenfield]

I came up with a different house rule to address the power disparity that comes as levels increase.

Instead of allowing iterative attacks every 5 BAB points, I allow them every 4.

So a melee artists get their second attack when BAB reaches 5, not 6, and another at 9, then 13, then 17, then 20. And each extra attack has a -4 cumulative penalty, instead of -5.

It's a subtle change to the power curve, one that means very little at the lower levels, but becomes more pronounced as levels increase.

Consider trying it in your games. It's a fire-and-forget change that you don't have to keep policing every time someone goes up a level, and doesn't mess with anything else.

 

[Greg K]

I'm brewing a new campaign and a couple of other threads in this forum have got me thinking. Despite preparing a list of house rules to deal with problematic spells (for which I'm grateful to Dannyalcatraz, Empirate and Celebrim, among others), I'm not that happy with wizards being able to simply choose the spells they want when they level.
I want to make the rules for research, or copying from scroll or book, the default way for wizards to learn new spells when they level.

Look at the training rules variant in the DMG. One of the suggestions is wizards only being able to learn spells that they have acquired from scrolls, spellbooks or other wizards.

Clerics I'm not sure about. I'd like the cloistered cleric to be the default and I'm inclined to let them retain their usual spell acquisition mechanism.

I like the cloistered cleric. However, I also like both spontaneous divine casting from Unearthed Arcana and tailoring clerical spell lists to deity as mentioned in the Variant Spell Lists from the DMG.

 

[TanisFrey]

I play in a Hackmaster Basic game. The system screws mages, especially at low level by making you roll at random for your new spell learned at each level. The system gives you 15 build points per level gained to be spent on skills, weapon proficiencies/specializations, these can be used for rerolls if you get a spell you don't like.

Maybe you can make a chart for wizards to roll on and if you use Action Points they can use one for a reroll in you game.


I like the idea of having you divine casters keeping prayer books. I would include rangers, paladins, blackguards, adepts and others divine spell casters keep prayer books also. I would run that the partial spell caster buy a prayer book and gain their initial spells in it for free at that point.

 

[Ranes]

It's great to log and and find a stream of thought-provoking posts*. Thanks.

(* Especially when you're at work...)

 

[Dingleberry]

I don't know what books you're making available to your players, but the solution in the campaign in which I'm playing a wizard was that all PHB spells were available without research at level up, but anything out of Spell Compendium or another book required research or otherwise finding.

That limit would also work for the cleric. Or you could change the mechanic a little so the cleric prays for the spells he/she wants, but the cleric's deity might replace some/all of them with something else. In a past campaign, the party was pretty freaked out when the cleric woke up and all the spells he'd prayed for the night before had been replaced with flame strike. We knew it was going to be an interesting day.