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Legal, reasonable way to make permanency, well, permanent

Yes, there is a very easy way to achieve this (not perfect, but at least close).

Just find someone with a caster level high enough (20th level Archmage with Create Magic Tattoo spell, for example) to make you scrolls of permanency, so your average opponents won't be able to dispel the permanency anytime soon. :)

Bye
Thanee
 

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Well... very easy... :D

Anyways, we use the house rule, that permanency cannot be dispelled (only suppressed), unless it is targeted specifically (or disjuncted).

Bye
Thanee
 

Sidenote:

Artoomis said:
My character is using Miracle to cast the Permanency...

And that would be the last time your character (mis)used Miracle for a while IMC. ;)

It's a friggin' miracle... not wish-for-free! :D

Bye
Thanee
 

Artoomis said:
I know that the Dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell ability can possible make permanency permanent (that is, non-dispellable) by using a Wish or Limited Wish to cast the Permanency.

I'm pretty much under the opinion that Permanancy shouldn't be a spell. I'd rather see a feat that extends the duration of spells at some appropriate level penalty (such as +4). I'd also prefer a feat that lets you make make a undispellable spell for the cost of a slotless magic item (you can't lose it but you also can't give it away).


Aaron
 


Thanee said:
Sidenote:



And that would be the last time your character (mis)used Miracle for a while IMC. ;)

It's a friggin' miracle... not wish-for-free! :D

Bye
Thanee

Well, it does indeed let you use 7th level mage spells for free. That's the way it's written, not a misuse.

edit: Of course, unlike wish, Miracles are totally umder DM control as they are always only requests to divine powers for something.
 
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welby said:
So, with a wand of dispel and enough permanent effects, you could level yourself up :)

Drat, 500 xp until the next level, so close.
*casts dispel on self*
I mean 500 xp over my next level, yay!
Well, I suppose. ;)

In practice, it never worked out that way. Anyone who spent a thousand of his hard-earned xp on a permanent spell and then got nailed with a dispel magic tended to set his 1000xp refund aside immediately, because he was just going to re-permanency himself at the earliest available opportunity.

If that meant levelling two sessions later rather than right now, they didn't mind, because they'd rather spend the xp on the spell and then take two sessions earning the xp to get the level than get that level and then have to spend two sessions without the permanent spell. But, y'know, if anyone had wanted to cash in the spell for an early level, I don't think our GM would've cared. She might have actually appreciated being able to freely use invisible opponents and language barriers again for a few sessions.

--
it still seems like a fairly elegant solution to me
 

If you are epic, take the Tenacious Magic feat (prereq Spellcraft 15) and choose the spell permanency. Then, for you, permanency is only suppressed for 1d4 rounds by a successful dispel effect.
 
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Artoomis said:
Well, it does indeed let you use 7th level mage spells for free. That's the way it's written, not a misuse.

I know that. :)

But clerics need to be more responsible with their granted powers.

edit: Of course, unlike wish, Miracles are totally umder DM control as they are always only requests to divine powers for something.

Yep, that's how I read and play it. The player has only little direct influence on what exactly happens with the miracle, tho it will of course be beneficial.

Bye
Thanee
 

I don't see why people think Permanancy should be changed. Sure, it costs some XP - but no gold. And while it can be dispelled, the fact that you can extend a spell way past it's usual duration is worth something - even if you only keep it for 5 or 6 encounters before it drops.

I mean, 500 XP isn't really all that much - there are many spells that require XP of around that value, and people never complain about that. And those spells only last for one casting. Spells cast on yourself can't even be dispelled unless the caster is of a higher level that you were when you cast Permanancy. That eliminates most monsters, and many NPCs. What DM sends wizards of higher levels at his party every encounter? That's a bit wacky. So you will usually get some benefit from Permanancy.

The only spells that are pricey XP-wise are the powerful spells you cast on items. They make near-instant magic items at no gold cost - and are also usually powerful spells in their own right. Sure, you might not need them very often, but they do come in handy in a pinch.

Perrmanant Teleportation Circle is a great way to move an army - clear across the world! It takes only 2 rounds plus 10 minutes (for casting Teleportation Circle) to set that up. How much would that be worth in gold, and how long would that take to do? Let's see, it would be a Wonderous Item. The first value is the material cost - there's a Gp cost to the spell (1000gp) so that value will be 100,000 Gp (since the item will be continous). There's no XP cost for Teleportation Circle, so that is 0. It's a use-activated/continous effect so that's 9 (spell level) x 17 (minimum caster level) x 2000 x 1.5 (since Teleportaion Circle's duration is measured by 10 mins/level) which equals 459,000 Gp. Added to our previous total we get 559,000 Gp. Last, the item takes up no body slots, so the final total is multiplied by 2 - for a grand total of 1,118,000 Gp. That means the item will cost 559,000 Gp to make and 44720 XP. Oh, and it will take 3 years (or at least, Earth years) and 23 days.

But Permanancy does it in 10 minutes at the cost of 4500 XP. Not a bad deal. Of course, if a player were to want to make an item out of Teleportation Circle, I would likely lower the costs from what the book says - but Permanancy might still be the way to go.

To make the XP cost of the item the same as Permanancy, the item would have to cost no more than 112,500 Gp base - and I'm not sure that's high enough for an item with a continous 9th level spell. It would really depend on how the players intended to use it... But you can quickly see that to make items (at the same XP cost) for many Permanant spells the base price of those items would be unusually low.

Code:
Spell			Level	 XP		Item Cost
Phase door		15th	 3,500 XP	87500 Gp
Prismatic sphere	17th	 4,500 XP	112500 Gp
Prismatic wall		16th	 4,000 XP	100000 Gp
Shrink item		11th	 1,500 XP	37500 Gp
Solid fog		12th	 2,000 XP	50000 Gp
Stinking cloud		11th	 1,500 XP	37500 Gp
Symbol of death		16th	 4,000 XP	100000 Gp
Symbol of fear		14th	 3,000 XP	75000 Gp
Symbol of insanity	16th	 4,000 XP	100000 Gp
Symbol of pain		13th	 2,500 XP	62500 Gp
Symbol of persuasion	14th	 3,000 XP	75000 Gp
Symbol of sleep		16th	 4,000 XP	100000 Gp
Symbol of stunning	15th	 3,500 XP	87500 Gp
Symbol of weakness	15th	 3,500 XP	87500 Gp
Teleportation circle	17th	 4,500 XP	112500 Gp
Wall of fire		12th	 2,000 XP	50000 Gp
Wall of force		13th	 2,500 XP	62500 Gp
Web			10th	 1,000 XP	25000 Gp

In the end, I don't think it's a bad tradeoff to have Permanancy take 3 rounds cost 0 Gp some XP and be dispellable, while items could cost significant Gp and XP - and take weeks (or more!) of game time.
 
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