Legends and Lore: What's With the Polls?

[Balesir]

I want to say that's impossible. But, y'know, I gave up on D&D in the 90s when 2e was collasping under the weight of its own suplements (and trying too hard to be like White Wolf, of all thing - like that'd work, eh berk?). But 4 or 5 years later, they came out with a version of the game that didn't suck. So, yeah, it's possible to bring people back.

But not by going backwards. Apeals to nostalgia only go so far, because 'like the game you remember' can never quite compete with the /actual/ game you remember, which you still have in a box in your garrage. I don't doubt that there are people who bought the Red Box for their kids or something... and rather than jump on the 4e/Essentials bandwagon, just got old gaming stuff down (or went on ebay and replaced some old books) and played that now and then.

I tend to agree, here. I also drifted away from D&D from ~1983 to ~2000, basically because it tried to (and maybe promised to) please everybody, but ended up as a confused, unfocussed mess. Partly, I was looking for a play style different from what D&D originally gave, partly D&D tried to shift playstyle without altering its basic systems...

Expecting "one size to fit all" in RPGs seems to me a bit like saying "if we can just get the balance right, maybe we can get all boardgamers back to playing Monopoly again..." The reason they all used to play Monopoly was that there was nothing much else to play; now they play many different games because they all have different tastes and they can get those tastes catered for by some of the many games out there. Same with RPG; there are now many game systems catering to several modes and foci of play. Getting "one game to rule them all" just ain't gonna happen again - times they have a-changed.

The troll closely followed by those who thought the sublime ignorance praiseworthy followed closely by those that fed and provoked the troll. The thread should have been reported and closed way before it was.

Oh, come, now - don't be a spoilsport. Ever since zoos gained a perceptive conscience about animal welfare, ignorant, bigoted schmucks on the internet are the only things available to poke and laugh at for guilt-free entertainment...

 

[MrMyth]

The 4e DMG infamously includes a bit where it tells you that talking to NPC's isn't fun. The idea of many of the rules were "basically handwave everything except combat, and get very detailed on combat."

I often see this reference and... I'm pretty sure it isn't true.

The section I think is being referred to is the DMG discussion on "modes of the game". This include Setup, Exploration, Conversations, Encounters, and Passing Time.

Passing Time is the section that you are encouraged to handwave. Note that it is explicitly seperate from talking to NPCs. Here is specifically what it says:

"The game has a rhythm and flow, and the action in the game is interspersed with lulls. These lulls are like the places where a movie fades to black and comes up again with the understanding that some time has passed. Don’t give these situations any more time than the movies do. When a rest period passes uneventfully, tell the players that and move on. Don’t make the players spend time discussing which character cooks what for dinner (unless the kind of group you are playing with finds this useful for building characters)."

Note that it doesn't say "skip past all rest periods". It says, "skip past uneventful rest periods". It doesn't say "talking to NPCs isn't fun". It says, "Don't make the players talk about mundane stuff unless they want to."

Now, maybe you are referring to some other section of the book. But I don't think the actual focus has changed. I think they are trying to put more and more emphasis on the same message they've had all along, and trying to overcome the misconceptions that people have.

And I think they are focusing on making sure the presentation matches the guidance they give. The DMG might not discourage NPC interaction, but its true that the presentation of the classes and powers doesn't stir the imagination for everyone as well as it could - and that is something they can address. With more flavor in the class descriptions in Essentials, as well as working to more firmly ground powers in the setting rather than the system.