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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6111700" data-attributes="member: 82106">I don't agree. Most of these characters are NOT AT ALL like average people, right from the start. Ged is a hugely promising student who has substantial ability (and we'd also have to consider at what point he becomes an adventurer, if it is after his training at the wizard school then he's already one of the most powerful mages in history with a heavy doom on him). Even if you assume his career starts when he leaves for Roke Isle he's already got years of training and substantial abilities, much like a 1st level PC. Luke Skywalker is already known as a great pilot and has substantial innate capabilities when he starts out, substantial enough that he is marked for death, and yet manages to escape. Thomas Covenant has great power, though he has little understanding of how to use it at first. The majority of the characters in both of Tolkien's works are hardened adventurers and heroes, if not actually higher powers. The hobbits are a sort of contrast, but all of them are still called out as unusual examples of the hobbit race, except possibly Sam in some sense.I think its quite reasonable for all characters to have a degree of heroic stature. Again, this is the norm in fantasy, particularly in the sort of genre D&D is primarily focused on. Its FINE to allow for a "0 level" type of character, but I don't see a huge demand for this that justifies reworking the entire traditional level structure. I mean really, I find it quite amusing that you all find it fine for DDN to do this, but heaven forbid when 4e innovated in any way, that was anathema. I'd prefer to keep the existing and traditional pattern, PCs are heroic adventurers, qualitatively different from ordinary people. I don't see where there is a problem with a typical 3e or 4e level progression WRT NPCs. Certainly in 4e NPCs can have a wide variety of stats. An ordinary non-combatant might be a minion, but there's no reason to assume that as a rule, they could also be low level standard stat blocks when required, or even higher level ones if they represent substantial potential threats. That doesn't make them in any way the same as PCs either, it just gives you tools to make them threats as required (or companions if you need that). Thus there is no untoward 'gap' between a 4e townsperson and a 4e PC. PERSONALLY I haven't had any issues portraying "new to the world of heroes" PCs with 4e rules. You just make sure they have the correct threats to face and their surroundings reflect that the character is not some amazing prodigy, its quite easy, and usually only requires some modest storytelling.</blockquote>

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