Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Legends & Lore 4/1/2013
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 6113344" data-attributes="member: 7635"><p>Call me old fashioned, but where I come from Metagame is a BAD thing. Metagame is the opposite of verisimilitude, as one requires you to think about the action on stage and the other the wires that control the puppets. </p><p></p><p>Which is why this argument ends up circular. The PCs control the grand narrative (its their story). They often control the driving narrative (their choices influence the direction of the story) and increasingly they want to control the minutiae of the refereeing as well.</p><p></p><p>The latter is illustrated in the concept that the player doesn't want to bull rush the giant; he has a high degree of failure because of size and strength. He wants the power that lets him do it regardless of size, strength, shape, or any other logical factors of resistance AND do his regular damage to boot. </p><p></p><p>You call it narrative control, I call it player entitlement. They want the benefit of pushing the giant around the board, but don't want the obvious chance of failure a bull rush system (with its checks against strength entail). Oh, and I the DM have to justify why my giant is being chased around the board 5 feet at a time by a 6' dude in armor and a shield. (cue the Benny Hill theme.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Having no experience with BW, I can't comment on that. I did in 4e PCs with little to fear in the way of death. Assuming the challenge was "appropriate" I don't think I ever saw a group fail unless the d20 was exceptionally cruel of all members. Foes did too little damage, PCs had too much hp. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So by artificially limiting a PCs actions in hand to what is on his power sheet vs. giving them usable combat actions at will, you automatically doomed said group rather than give that fighter the 1 in 20 shot of saving them? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nor is there one at mine. But my players assume that since I am the GM, my ruling is law at my table and I could (in theory) throw the PHB in the trash and the game could keep running. Your DM is bound by the letter and spirit of the rules, mine IS the rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 6113344, member: 7635"] Call me old fashioned, but where I come from Metagame is a BAD thing. Metagame is the opposite of verisimilitude, as one requires you to think about the action on stage and the other the wires that control the puppets. Which is why this argument ends up circular. The PCs control the grand narrative (its their story). They often control the driving narrative (their choices influence the direction of the story) and increasingly they want to control the minutiae of the refereeing as well. The latter is illustrated in the concept that the player doesn't want to bull rush the giant; he has a high degree of failure because of size and strength. He wants the power that lets him do it regardless of size, strength, shape, or any other logical factors of resistance AND do his regular damage to boot. You call it narrative control, I call it player entitlement. They want the benefit of pushing the giant around the board, but don't want the obvious chance of failure a bull rush system (with its checks against strength entail). Oh, and I the DM have to justify why my giant is being chased around the board 5 feet at a time by a 6' dude in armor and a shield. (cue the Benny Hill theme.) Having no experience with BW, I can't comment on that. I did in 4e PCs with little to fear in the way of death. Assuming the challenge was "appropriate" I don't think I ever saw a group fail unless the d20 was exceptionally cruel of all members. Foes did too little damage, PCs had too much hp. So by artificially limiting a PCs actions in hand to what is on his power sheet vs. giving them usable combat actions at will, you automatically doomed said group rather than give that fighter the 1 in 20 shot of saving them? Nor is there one at mine. But my players assume that since I am the GM, my ruling is law at my table and I could (in theory) throw the PHB in the trash and the game could keep running. Your DM is bound by the letter and spirit of the rules, mine IS the rules. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Legends & Lore 4/1/2013
Top