Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Legends & Lore 4/1/2013
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6113706" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>I'm a little puzzled. I've never been able to find where it was in the 4e rules that it said "the DM shall not take into account the size of a creature or make any narrative based changes to the resolution of actions or other effects". It isn't even SUGGESTED. At least IMHO and in my play the divorce between mechanics and narrative wasn't there to create some sort of soulless wargame where the story is just window dressing. Quite the opposite, it was intended to remove BARRIERS to creating an interesting story. The player of the fighter gets to tell us how his character forces the giant back 5' instead of "Section 3.4.2.1 - Size Modifiers to Forced Movement: You shall reduce the size of the forced move up or down by one square per size category difference between the character being pushed and the character doing the pushing as follows...." (OK, D&D has never been THAT dry, but certain versions felt like that after a certain point). </p><p></p><p>I'm fine with the players and the DM working out the impact of the narrative. In this case generalized rules like 4e's page 42 are really handy. If the fighter wants to not just push the giant back, but there are going to be additional implications based on the narrative (maybe there's a fence behind the giant it might trip over) then that can be worked in via these general 'cover anything' type of rules. </p><p></p><p>So in this vein I'd want to see decoupling, and general catch-all rules, and an explanation of how all that fits together (which seems to have been missing in 4e). From there its easy for one group to just play 'wargame mode' if they want, another group to follow standard 'this works, and this doesn't' but allow for some narrative modifications to that (IE describe how it does work and it will), and some other group might just make up all sorts of crazy things for their own game. There can then be options like "all undead can't be backstabbed" if you want to play that way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6113706, member: 82106"] I'm a little puzzled. I've never been able to find where it was in the 4e rules that it said "the DM shall not take into account the size of a creature or make any narrative based changes to the resolution of actions or other effects". It isn't even SUGGESTED. At least IMHO and in my play the divorce between mechanics and narrative wasn't there to create some sort of soulless wargame where the story is just window dressing. Quite the opposite, it was intended to remove BARRIERS to creating an interesting story. The player of the fighter gets to tell us how his character forces the giant back 5' instead of "Section 3.4.2.1 - Size Modifiers to Forced Movement: You shall reduce the size of the forced move up or down by one square per size category difference between the character being pushed and the character doing the pushing as follows...." (OK, D&D has never been THAT dry, but certain versions felt like that after a certain point). I'm fine with the players and the DM working out the impact of the narrative. In this case generalized rules like 4e's page 42 are really handy. If the fighter wants to not just push the giant back, but there are going to be additional implications based on the narrative (maybe there's a fence behind the giant it might trip over) then that can be worked in via these general 'cover anything' type of rules. So in this vein I'd want to see decoupling, and general catch-all rules, and an explanation of how all that fits together (which seems to have been missing in 4e). From there its easy for one group to just play 'wargame mode' if they want, another group to follow standard 'this works, and this doesn't' but allow for some narrative modifications to that (IE describe how it does work and it will), and some other group might just make up all sorts of crazy things for their own game. There can then be options like "all undead can't be backstabbed" if you want to play that way. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Legends & Lore 4/1/2013
Top