Blog (A5E) Let’s Look At Horde Monsters!

[lichmaster]

looks less like a replacement for squads and more just a different way of approaching the problem. i'm gonna try using these next session.

Please post your findings when you playtest them. I have a hunch that these horde monsters will be dangerous glass cannons

 

[Morrus]

Please post your findings when you playtest them. I have a hunch that these horde monsters will be dangerous glass cannons

That's what they're supposed to be. Still dangerous to PCs but easy to mow down. The template reduces their hit points and actions, not their individual attacks. Though they don't get multi-attacks or area attacks. If you look back at the reference to horde creatures in the introduction:

"Furthermore, a horde monster hits hard. While hordes are simple and fast to run—a horde monster never makes more than one attack—they don’t deal minimal, easily ignored damage. In fact, along with its weapon damage and ability modifier, a horde monster gets a damage bonus to make sure that it remains a threat to adventurers of any level. Heroes might be able to plow through hordes of foes, but they can’t afford to ignore them."

They work--and feel--very different to squads or to low-level critters.

 

[lichmaster]

That's what they're supposed to be. Still dangerous to PCs but easy to mow down. The template reduces their hit points and actions, not their individual attacks. Though they don't get multi-attacks or area attacks.

Thanks for the clarification.

I personally wouldn't be comfortable at all running the sample encounter I quickly put together in my first post regarding this (5 horde ogres vs 4 level 3 characters), unless I got something wrong and these are not the correct numbers for a similar encounter.

I hope there will be additional guidance on how to create reasonable encounters with these monsters, maybe also with indications of the max horde monsters' CR vs the players and similar things.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I personally wouldn't be comfortable at all running the sample encounter I quickly put together in my first post regarding this (5 horde ogres vs 4 level 3 characters), unless I got something wrong and these are not the correct numbers for a similar encounter.

you did, actually - you forgot about this line:

It doesn’t roll extra weapon dice because it’s larger than Medium.

so the damage for each individual horde ogre is actually a bit lower (1.5-3 points depending on the attack) then an individual regular ogre. as a group, the horde ogres thus do more like twice the damage of 2 individual regular ogres, which tracks closer with their lack of HP.

 

[lichmaster]

you did, actually - you forgot about this line:

so the damage for each individual horde ogre is actually a bit lower (1.5-3 points depending on the attack) then an individual regular ogre. as a group, the horde ogres thus do more like twice the damage of 2 individual regular ogres, which tracks closer with their lack of HP.

Good catch, thanks!
However this means that medium or smaller creatures won't have this penalty

 

[Steampunkette]

Yeah, a Horde Kobold isn't 3 kobolds in a square, it's a single kobold meant to be casually dispatched while fighting a larger number of total enemies for three purposes:

1) To look cool.
2) To soak up attacks that would otherwise hit a more important target (making them live longer)
3) For AoE spells and effects to have a bigger 'mechanical' impact by hitting more squares full of enemies and probably wiping them off the battlefield en masse.

Because it kind of feels awesome to wipe out 12 people with a Fireball even if you're still fighting several "Lieutenants" and the BBEG.

They've still got enough teeth to bite, though, to ensure they're still a threat.

 

[lichmaster]

Yeah, a Horde Kobold isn't 3 kobolds in a square, it's a single kobold meant to be casually dispatched while fighting a larger number of total enemies for three purposes:

1) To look cool.
2) To soak up attacks that would otherwise hit a more important target (making them live longer)
3) For AoE spells and effects to have a bigger 'mechanical' impact by hitting more squares full of enemies and probably wiping them off the battlefield en masse.

Because it kind of feels awesome to wipe out 12 people with a Fireball even if you're still fighting several "Lieutenants" and the BBEG.

They've still got enough teeth to bite, though, to ensure they're still a threat.

Yes, I'm trying to figure out what kind of role these creatures have, and get a feeling of how much of a punch they pack.

There's also the aspect of handling many individual creatures, which can become very cumbersome.

Important to notice also that the template does not impact maneuver DCs. So Horde creatures can be excellent in grabbing/disarming/knocking down/shoving a party, thanks to the additional actions given by larger numbers

 

[W'rkncacnter]

ran a session with some horde monsters today (kobolds with guns) - they died very quickly, but i think that was more initiative and party tactics then anything specific about the mechanic (my party SHREDS encounters APART). when they did hit, they hit damn hard. i've got another fight next session with some more horde monsters. we'll see how it goes.

 

[lichmaster]

I'll try with another

Horde Ghoul
9 hp
Paralyzing claw: (6) 1d6+3, on crit save DC 12 CON or paralyzed
Bite: (7) 1d8+3

5 horde ghouls should pose a challenge equivalent to 2 normal ghouls, so 10 horde ghouls should be a medium encounter for 4 level 3 PCs.

Given the party is more than 2:1 outnumbered, AOEs will definitely shine. 3 ghouls could face the tankier characters while there are still 2 for the weaker ones. Grabs/knockdowns could be very dangerous, but there's a decent chance of felling one of them with a single decent sword blow.

 

[Morrus]

There's also the aspect of handling many individual creatures, which can become very cumbersome.

This is literally a rule to make handling many individual creatures less cumbersome. That's pretty much its raison d'etre.

There's also rules for larger numbers of creatures like hit point pools, shared attack and damage rolls, and the like, but that's more than there was room to go into in the preview.