D&D 5E Let us stat up Conan the *insert sub-title here*

[BookBarbarian]

Personally I disagree with 9 and 10. I've never thought of Conan as fitting the D&D barbarian class, course I've only ever read the Howard, Decamp, Carter novels (Lancer/Ace books) and just flipped through the comics.

I've only read all the Howard stuff and I'd peg him as Barbarian over a Fighter. Conan's abilities spring from the fact that he was born and raised in the harshest of environments, not anything obtained my training.

Just a few more things to add to the conversation. In one story (I'll try to track it down) Conan is made commander of an army and given a plate armor, however he is uncomfortable in it and before they go into battle he is back into his more comfortable chain and leather. This is about the best literary example of not being proficient in heavy armor that I've seen. Also in the Phoenix in the Sword he doesn't even get completely into his Armor before having to fight a score of humans followed by an ape like demon. I think he has more durability than just high level hitpoints.

And while Conan doesn't get frothing at the mouth rage, he certainly has a primal/natural aspect to his fighting that is different from every civilized fighter he faces.

While he does steal things I would never put levels of a 5e Rogue on Conan. While I could see expertise in certain skill like athletics, I see no evidence that he has thieves tools proficiency.

Personally I'd re-fluff a Tiger Totem Barbarian for Conan, it accounts for the extra skill proficiency he seems to have. I'd refluff the spells to more mundane ways of getting information. Like recalling a bit of lore learned from Elders at a Cimmerian fireside.

An Outlander Champion that does't use heavy armor could also be a really good fit, but I just think that the base barbarian does have things that fit the character really well.

I guess the Champion subclass on a Barbarian class would be pretty close to ideal for me.

And while it's not straight 5e the 3rd party Adventures in Middle-Earth has the Foehammer subclass for a Barbarian, and I think it fits the character really well.

 

[Lancelot]

So you'd give up +4 to both Strength and Con in order to increase his Athletics from +14 to +19?

Well, the only way he's getting that +4 Str/Con is if he's Barbarian 20, with no levels of fighter or rogue at all. And that's just not consistent with the character as described in the books. He has extensive organized military training and has been employed as a soldier, captain and general in multiple books. He's literate and introspective. He is proficient with all the trappings of civilization: he has captained a ship multiple times, commanded armies, worked for rulers, knows his way round a dozen cities like the back of his hand, and spends the latter part of his career being a competent and well-regarded ruler of one of the most civilized nations in the Hyborian world. Sure, he has some barbarian levels... but as multiple posters here have commented, he's clearly more of a fighter (in D&D terms) than a barbarian in the source material. He doesn't fly into a rage very often, and (by story count) he's far more inclined to fighter-type roles than barbarian-type roles.

In terms of ability scores, where's the story justification for him suddenly gaining a +4 Str/Con bump towards the end of his career? He gets 20th level as an aging king in his 40's or 50's, and suddenly "powers up"? Naaah. He always had huge stats, probably starting with an 18 or more in Str and Con, and improving from there. He gets the big Athletics bonuses fairly early in his career, to justify the extraordinary things he did in the earlier stories. Towards the end of his career (Hour of the Dragon, Phoenix on the Sword), he probably picks up his fighter levels 9-11... Indomitable, Improved Maneuver Dice and Extra Attack (2) representing his more tactical style of fighting and usage of heavy armor on the battlefields of the King Conan books (Scarlet Citadel and Hour of the Dragon).

In purely D&D mechanical terms, that Fighter 11 level is particularly important because it gives him 3 attacks per round. When he's described as fighting hordes of men on the battlefield in the later stories, we want some way to model his ability to cut down swathes of dudes quickly.

As for the choice of Battlemaster: it's not so much about leading men; it's about giving him options in combat. Here are some highly appropriate maneuvers for Conan, all of which have justifications in the published stories: Evasive Footwork, Goading Attack, Menacing Attack, Parry, Pushing Attack, Sweeping Attack. The latter is particularly important for those times when he's taking on a literal horde of attackers.

 

[BookBarbarian]

He has extensive organized military training and has been employed as a soldier, captain and general in multiple books. He's literate and introspective. He is proficient with all the trappings of civilization: he has captained a ship multiple times, commanded armies, worked for rulers, knows his way round a dozen cities like the back of his hand, and spends the latter part of his career being a competent and well-regarded ruler of one of the most civilized nations in the Hyborian world.

I'm not arguing Conan is a 20th level Barbarian, 20 Strength is just fine from what I've read, but everything you listed here can be accomplished in game by a pure classed barbarian. I've had Outlander Barbarians in 5e that speak read and write in 3 languages form level one, and that's out of the book RAW. I've Sailor and Pirate barbarians. I've had Soldier, Mercenary, and Knight barbarians too. Nothing stops a 5e Barbarian form commanding an army or becoming King by his own hand.

 

[Lancelot]

I'm not arguing Conan is a 20th level Barbarian, 20 Strength is just fine from what I've read, but everything you listed here can be accomplished in game by a pure classed barbarian.

Sure. Equally, Conan could be modeled as a Ranger 20 as well. He uses the sign of Jhebbal Sag (spell use!?!) to ward off animals in Beyond the Black River, he arguably has Primeval Awareness (he usually "senses" supernatural presences before spotting them), both Colossus Slayer and Horde Breaker are reasonable, etc, etc.

Hell, I'd love to model him with a very unusual Paladin 20. He is devoted, in his own special way, to Crom (yeah... "he needs no worship" and all that, but the names of the gods are on Conan's lips more often than Aragorn or Fafhrd or most other fantasy heroes). He somehow prevails against insanely powerful "demons", perhaps by "smiting" them. He has an Aura of Courage. Give him the Oath of Vengeance, and Vow of Emnity... That could make one of the most interesting paladins I've seen in a long time.

And you could model him as a Barbarian 20, or a Fighter 20. For me, though, I like the idea that Conan clearly passes through distinct stages of his career. He's one of the rare few classic fantasy heroes that truly evolves and changes over time. Many heroes "grow"; they get more competent at what they do. But Conan changes. He's a thief, then he's a mercenary, then a pirate, then a soldier... I like how this can be represented via multi-classing, and it just feels "right" to me.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

And you could model him as a Barbarian 20, or a Fighter 20. For me, though, I like the idea that Conan clearly passes through distinct stages of his career. He's one of the rare few classic fantasy heroes that truly evolves and changes over time. Many heroes "grow"; they get more competent at what they do. But Conan changes. He's a thief, then he's a mercenary, then a pirate, then a soldier... I like how this can be represented via multi-classing, and it just feels "right" to me.

Very much this. Conan is possibly the single best realization of what 3E/5E multiclassing is intended to represent.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Sure. Equally, Conan could be modeled as a Ranger 20 as well. He uses the sign of Jhebbal Sag (spell use!?!) to ward off animals in Beyond the Black River, he arguably has Primeval Awareness (he usually "senses" supernatural presences before spotting them), both Colossus Slayer and Horde Breaker are reasonable, etc, etc.

Hell, I'd love to model him with a very unusual Paladin 20. He is devoted, in his own special way, to Crom (yeah... "he needs no worship" and all that, but the names of the gods are on Conan's lips more often than Aragorn or Fafhrd or most other fantasy heroes). He somehow prevails against insanely powerful "demons", perhaps by "smiting" them. He has an Aura of Courage. Give him the Oath of Vengeance, and Vow of Emnity... That could make one of the most interesting paladins I've seen in a long time.

That is good enough for Solomon Kane, so it should be good enough for Conan. Besides there is nothing that says a paladin has to know he is a paladin (especially if he uses all his spell slots for divine smite). Although 5e paladins don't have to be tied to a god, think of the benefits to Crom. Everywhere Conan goes he swears by Crom and kills bad dudes (and sometimes random dudes too). That is pretty good PR.

I think Oath of Conquest isn't that far from Conan's long-term goal of getting his own kingdom.....I haven't looked at the Crown Oath for a while, maybe that is better mechanically.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Sure. Equally, Conan could be modeled as a Ranger 20 as well. He uses the sign of Jhebbal Sag (spell use!?!) to ward off animals in Beyond the Black River, he arguably has Primeval Awareness (he usually "senses" supernatural presences before spotting them), both Colossus Slayer and Horde Breaker are reasonable, etc, etc.

Hell, I'd love to model him with a very unusual Paladin 20. He is devoted, in his own special way, to Crom (yeah... "he needs no worship" and all that, but the names of the gods are on Conan's lips more often than Aragorn or Fafhrd or most other fantasy heroes). He somehow prevails against insanely powerful "demons", perhaps by "smiting" them. He has an Aura of Courage. Give him the Oath of Vengeance, and Vow of Emnity... That could make one of the most interesting paladins I've seen in a long time.

And you could model him as a Barbarian 20, or a Fighter 20. For me, though, I like the idea that Conan clearly passes through distinct stages of his career. He's one of the rare few classic fantasy heroes that truly evolves and changes over time. Many heroes "grow"; they get more competent at what they do. But Conan changes. He's a thief, then he's a mercenary, then a pirate, then a soldier... I like how this can be represented via multi-classing, and it just feels "right" to me.

These are pretty solid points, though like MechaTerrasque I'd say the Crom stuff is less a Paladin in 5e since they ae sworn to oaths and not necessarily deities. You did make me think of the Zealot Barbarian though, and that's not a bad fit for a base class for Conan. Probably better than Berserker or Totem anyway.

However, I don't think Conan changes, what changes is the circumstances he is in. In fact I think it's Howard's point that as a wild or primal man Conan runs roughshod (Sandal-shod?) over every aspect of the Civilized World. Howard and the author H.P. Lovecraft even had letter exchanges on the nature of the Natural world vs the Civilized world. With Howard arguing that the natural world will always win, and that civilization will always fall and you're better off being a wild man in a civilization than a civilized man in the wild, Lovecraft argued quite the opposite.

This is why I'll always see Conan as nothing but Barbarian and after nearly a century still the quintessential Barbarian.

 

[Slit518]

The bigger question is, where can I buy the Robert E Howard books? I feel bookstores don't really sell his classic stuff, and any Conan stuff they sell these days are more modern through Marvel or Dark Horse.

Conan the -
Barbarian
Bard
Fighter
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue

He continually levels up in each one of these, yet takes which aspects he wants from them without fully taking everything, because nobody tells Conan otherwise!

P.S.
Doing some research, it seems the Robert E Howard books are NOW available at a bookstore. I shall pick those up at some point!

 

[cbwjm]

The bigger question is, where can I buy the Robert E Howard books? I feel bookstores don't really sell his classic stuff, and any Conan stuff they sell these days are more modern through Marvel or Dark Horse.

Conan the -
Barbarian
Bard
Fighter
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue

He continually levels up in each one of these, yet takes which aspects he wants from them without fully taking everything, because nobody tells Conan otherwise!

P.S.
Doing some research, it seems the Robert E Howard books are NOW available at a bookstore. I shall pick those up at some point!

Apart from a handful of incomplete stories, the complete works of Howard's conan are available online through Gutenberg I believe. If you have a kindle, I think you can also get the complete works with the incomplete stories for a couple of dollars.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

You also might want to check out the Robert E. Howard Foundation (http://www.rehfoundation.org/publishing/). They haven't done Conan specific books, since Conan's adventures have been republished in a number of places, but there are some other barbarian/adventurer types that are worth reading (as well as his funny stories that often paid more of the bills than the sword and sorcery did).