D&D 5E Let's Build A Better Psion

[NotAYakk]

Instead of a pool of dozens of points, what about having 1 to 4? Make them like warlock spell slots, and refresh by meditating during a short rest.

That also cleans up the bookkeeping.

And for subclass, use a Psionic Discipline. To make them unique, give them more than one Discipline. The Disciplines can have features and cantrips etc associated with them.

The Mystic "Psionic Focus" is fun as well, a pseudo-concentration that lets you activate a Disipline-specific feature. You can release Focus for a kicker on an ability, and you can only Regain Focus by spending PP on that Discipline (that should keep it dynamic, but not free).

Existing spells can be converted to Psionic spells. They can add "Release Focus: EFFECT" (which has no impact when not cast psionically).

The idea that psions need to rest for 8 hours seems off. The short rest fits better.

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A somewhat separate system for high level effects might be needed, but I don't want to copy warlock major arcanum. We could just have the Psion never have 7th+ level effects (make it a 2/3 caster or something).

Or we could make 6th+ level effects be features of your discipline that can be used once before taking a long rest. Not sure how to balance that so you don't have 4 disciplines that all provide 9th level effects? without having spell slots or similar.

 

[CleverNickName]

Kibblestasty (one of my favorite homebrewers) has a Psion class that uses Monk ki points as its base; it's a very solid approach.

5e - Psion (KibblesTasty) by KibblesTasty

5e - Psion (KibblesTasty) by KibblesTasty - Created with GM Binder.

www.gmbinder.com

This really is good stuff! Do you think Kibblestasty would let us use their material for this project?

 

[CleverNickName]

Instead of a pool of dozens of points, what about having 1 to 4? Make them like warlock spell slots, and refresh by meditating during a short rest.

That also cleans up the bookkeeping.

And for subclass, use a Psionic Discipline. To make them unique, give them more than one Discipline. The Disciplines can have features and cantrips etc associated with them.

The Mystic "Psionic Focus" is fun as well, a pseudo-concentration that lets you activate a Disipline-specific feature. You can release Focus for a kicker on an ability, and you can only Regain Focus by spending PP on that Discipline (that should keep it dynamic, but not free).

Existing spells can be converted to Psionic spells. They can add "Release Focus: EFFECT" (which has no impact when not cast psionically).

The idea that psions need to rest for 8 hours seems off. The short rest fits better.

---

A somewhat separate system for high level effects might be needed, but I don't want to copy warlock major arcanum. We could just have the Psion never have 7th+ level effects (make it a 2/3 caster or something).

Or we could make 6th+ level effects be features of your discipline that can be used once before taking a long rest. Not sure how to balance that so you don't have 4 disciplines that all provide 9th level effects? without having spell slots or similar.

You grabbed my interest with "the short rest fits better." I've never read any of the Dark Sun books and I've never played a psionic character, so I don't really have a feel for how quickly the psion's battery should recharge.

There's nothing wrong with copying the warlock's Major Arcanum, in my opinion. I mean, we are already converting existing spells into psionic powers; converting the means of acquisition seems like the next logical step.

 

[Leatherhead]

In my past experience discussing what a psion in, this is the heart and sole of it. People who like psionics like power points, end of discussion. They can't pin down why a psionic isn't a type of a sorcerer or a type of wizard from the flavor perspective, but they can point to the mechanical distinction between the two.

Which is also the crux of the problem: Presentation Matters.
Psionic fans want it to feel different. The people who don't like Psionics don't like it because it feels different.

Because we know the systems are basically mathematically the same, all we have to do is present both systems at the same time. By giving the Slot System a mechanic where it can break up a slot into lower level ones on the fly, suddenly they use exactly the same math as filtered though divergent naming conventions.

I maintain it would be better to make the Points System option the variant. Mostly because it makes the Points system feel more exotic and "advanced" (despite being the exact same thing). It's the best possible setup to placate both sides.

 

[TwoSix]

This really is good stuff! Do you think Kibblestasty would let us use their material for this project?

He's stated in the past he doesn't mind people re-using his stuff, although crediting somewhere in the work is always appropriate.

 

[Enrico Poli1]

I agree with the idea that the Warlock class could be the best model for the Psionicist.

I've already posted my take on the Discipline Powers for Psychokinesis (they can also function with a Warlock model). In the next days I'll post the other disciplines.

I want to give the most 2e feel that it's possible to the class, for example with the names of the Powers.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Most of my experience with psionics is with 2e, and the complete book of said name. I found it enjoyable, but that probably is because it appealed to my powergamer self

As a general big picture thing, initially I was leaning towards a point system. But after reading some of the comments here, I am really warming up to more of the warlock style than sorcerer style.

For my opinions, I'd like to be as close to an existing framework as opposed tot having a brand new system. It's easier for players, and easier for DMs, rather than have to learn yet another set of rules. so the question is, how do you do that while including everything you want? Goes back to the warlock and short rest mechanic, I think.

I'd also like to see 3 subclasses, rather than 2, based on the core archetypes: combat, skill monkey, and full on mind "wizard" (excuse that term) or mentalist. For mentalists, not just things like telepathy, or attacking a mind with psychic damage, or control, but also things like prediction. Maybe something along the lines of portent.

A skill monkey could be focuses on material manipulation and telekinesis. More of transformation things, like shapeshifting on various levels.

Combat would be self explanatory: psychic weapons and armor, direct mind attacks, etc

 

[Shardstone]

I don't think all Psionic fans want to feel different to such a degree as being parroted here. At the end of the day, a lot of old school psionics mimic spells.

I think the important thing, more so than making all these sciences and stuff, is to make the class mechanics feel good beyond just the spellcasting-esque abilities and look to the actual abilities and how the class works. Stuff like the Bard's cutting word, the Sorcerer's metamagic, the Warlock's invocations. What's the core sauce of the Psion?

EDIT: In a few days, maybe a week, I'll be posting up my own mock-up of a Psion class with some of my thinking, but I'm hoping these questions can generate some interesting ideas for others.

 

[Yaarel]

In a world of vancian spellcasting, spell points mattered.

But now in 5e, spontaneous casting is just simpler and better than spell points. Spell points are just unnecessarily complex in comparison.

The 3e Psion (XPH) makes it crystal clear that the Psion is casting normal spells. Giving spells Greek names, doesnt disguise the fact that they are spells. The 5e Mystic is likewise casting normal spells. Clustering groups of spells together, doesnt disguise the fact that the psionic class is casting normal spells.

I feel it is important to embrace the Psion as a spellcaster. And work from here to make it a more mindful spellcaster.

The 5e Warlock class seems a decent model mechanically. It has abilities that are always on − so it feels like innate spellcasting, somewhat like more potent cantrips. Its spells recharge per short rest − so it is more about personal stamina. And the choice of spells known come with strongly organizing themes. And the Warlock is a full caster that can cast slot level 9 spells.

 

[Raunalyn]

I was thinking about the Concentration mechanic from previous UA articles; I remember liking it because if felt different than your typical spell-casting class. This got me to thinking about some of the classic Psionic defenses from previous editions (mainly Mind Blank, Thought Shield, and Intellect Fortress).

What if we made those part of the concentration mechanic? While you are "focused" you gain a static benefit that mimics one of the effects. At higher levels, you gain further options while you are focused. Perhaps a DC for the concentration check to see what type of effect you receive?

Just brain-storming here.