Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5909010" data-attributes="member: 92511">PC contribution should be just as you say.Everyone contributes, in or out of combat, as they see fit, are comfortable with, and makes sense with their character concept.The "system" should not be telling any player, "This is what you need to do to contribute."It can offer guidelines! I hope it does, as BECM did, in their class descriptions. "Fighters stay up front...do the [ya know] FIGHTING! Magic-users, DON'T try to engage hand-to-hand! Help from the rear and be careful/SMART about it. Cleric, help out where you can. Cast spells or fill in/help the fighter! Rogues [nee Thief] be sneaky n' do wut ya do.", etc...I'm paraphrasing, of course. But the GAME? The "SYSTEM" should not be telling players how to make their characters contribute beyond some suggestions of the....forgive me, and I totally don't mean this is a 4e way...the "role" of their class....as makes sense to the class abilities.I think, to urge contribution, this is the best way. Some players will have well-formed concepts of their characters. Some might not. Those that DO, don't need any direction. Those that don't? Might.I think examples are key. The lists of "feats" (under Themes) and the lists of Skills (under Backgrounds)...and/or Class Abilities should be presented with an array of examples of how to use them in play...in and out of combat. Give those without a concept "something to do" and give those with one some ideas they might not have thought of...but could easily be applied and work for their character concept.Not "I use this mechanic....this happens. Move X squares. +1 to Y. +2 to Z. Save/No save. etc"...but an array of how this might be used for various, different purposes. Naturally, the players (as they often do) will come up with things that aren't in the books or the DM has thought of...HOPEFULLY!Case in point (and play): During the playtest of ENworld's own ZEITGEIST setting, which we were playing in 4e, my "Hunter Ranger"...from the Essentials rules, I believe...gained the "power" to create a Bridge of Vines...or thorns?...vines, I think.We were on a platform with a narrow access point with enemies racing up it. I asked if I could use the "bridge of vines" to create a "wall". I think I was allowed 10 feet [or 10 "squares"? I don't really remember]...the DM said it was a bridge...it needed a starting and end point.Fair enough.I had no concept of how 4e "powers" worked...only that I could do this thing once per day...I asked if I could put one end of the "bridge" in front of me and another/the other "end" a foot or two in front of that... effectively making a "wall" of 5 feet [or "squares" or whatever].The DM, graciously, allowed it (lauded my creativity!) and we had a defensible 5 foot/square "barricade", of sorts, to protect us for a time and attack the things coming at us one or two at a time as they clawed their way over...instead of being ripped to shreds, immediately. Which we surely would have been./End case in point.DM adjudication NEEDS to come back into 5e...WITH a solid array of guidelines, to be sure! But not just be "allowed", but ENCOURAGED. [I hear the beating of the "End DM Fiat" drums being pounded, even now. hahaha.]A PCs ability to contribute shouldn't be dictated on the page...beyond suggestions. If that's all your players do...bully for you. But, for others, it shouldn't be ALL they can do.--SD</blockquote>

Verification