D&D 5E (2014) Let's discuss the Mystic v.3
- Thread starter Erechel
- Start date
We've rebalanced the Mystic class for our campaign setting, as we always do. I'd be very interested in this group's feedback.
Online Class
Downloadable PDF
Editable spell sheet to use in your campaigns
Reddit Post
The Reddit post outlines some of the major technical changes we made to the class, and the document itself discusses the reasons for our major flavor and class redesigns.
Online Class
Downloadable PDF
Editable spell sheet to use in your campaigns
Reddit Post
The Reddit post outlines some of the major technical changes we made to the class, and the document itself discusses the reasons for our major flavor and class redesigns.
TwoSix
The Year of the TwoSix
I'll need some more time to a deep dive, but very interesting so far! I always like when homebrewers take the time to explain their design decisions, and I thought your overall concept of splitting the fantasy and sci-fi concepts apart is excellent.
mellored
Legend
Is the one on the DMguild the same?
I love that you filtered the class down and limited the number of diciplines (the original was ridiculous). I would have to do some play testing to be sure but working in the Wai into Monk was a stroke of genius! although it still feels a bit off. like if there was a further class split from monk exchanging some of the monks regular abilities in favor of the psy abilities, maybe an option to take, slow fall for instance, and replace it with an additional Wai option. just a thought.
Glad you nerfed adaptive body to 1/8th smart fix there. but immunity for an hour is clearly broken still. a round or maybe a minute. immunity is incredibly powerful. and being able to give it to the party! it doesn't even matter if you blow all your will points on it to be totally OP. just wrestle the fire elemental to death while your party tickle its feet!
You learn to see and interact with ethereal beings of light
and shadow that others cannot see. You can request one of
these sentient beings to assist you. With this discipline, you
use your ability to shape energy to temporarily bind agreeable
consciences to physical forms.
I like that you combined all of the summons to one (at least thematically) but the description is weak. and binding spirits to the elemental sounds a bit witchy and magical to me. maybe something more: you have learned that all of matter and energy consists innately of a balance of shadow and light. by subtly manipulating this balance you invoke a primal rift through which elemental energy eagerly enters the material plane. The elemental disappears if you lose concentration because the balance automatically reverts to normal banishing the elemental immediately.
I stopped looking at the revised disciplines, for now. but it seems to me that the disciplines are not allocated in a balanced way. the psion particularly seems to get the best abilities: summon stuff, giant growth or shrink, psychic blast and black dragon breath. If it were my home brew (just to give an opinion not a criticism) i would drop the psion all together. making 3 subclasses. then I would limit the disciplines each class can take to its own discipline or to an "open list" which would consist of the psion abilities. and no others. an awakened cannot take an immortal discipline but it can take from the open list. maybe give the soul blade a few disciplines of its own and you are done.
there are my 2cents. overall it is a HUGE improvement on the Mystic class thank you for your clearly hard work!
P.S. diminutive is still ridiculous to me; at the very least it needs to have its movement speed nerfed to the new size. half size half speed. quarter size quarter speed etc. seems appropriate if a little too generous really.
P.P.S. also, for magic and psionics; not only is it easier to make them on the same ground for resistances etc. it makes good sense thematically. Wizards tap into this thing, magic, to create and change the world around them but it follows strict rules. think of it as a 5th force in terms of the nuclear weak force, strong force, elector magnetic force, gravity and magic. it is a science. Psionics does the same thing, tapping into and manipulating these forces, the difference is the method and varying cost of completing the task. teleportation is relatively easy for a mystic to do while melfs acid arrow or tensers floating disc or magic missile is relatively difficult. like chemistry and biology trying to do the same thing. some will have to put for tremendous effort while the other relatively little effort to do the same thing.
Glad you nerfed adaptive body to 1/8th smart fix there. but immunity for an hour is clearly broken still. a round or maybe a minute. immunity is incredibly powerful. and being able to give it to the party! it doesn't even matter if you blow all your will points on it to be totally OP. just wrestle the fire elemental to death while your party tickle its feet!
You learn to see and interact with ethereal beings of light
and shadow that others cannot see. You can request one of
these sentient beings to assist you. With this discipline, you
use your ability to shape energy to temporarily bind agreeable
consciences to physical forms.
I like that you combined all of the summons to one (at least thematically) but the description is weak. and binding spirits to the elemental sounds a bit witchy and magical to me. maybe something more: you have learned that all of matter and energy consists innately of a balance of shadow and light. by subtly manipulating this balance you invoke a primal rift through which elemental energy eagerly enters the material plane. The elemental disappears if you lose concentration because the balance automatically reverts to normal banishing the elemental immediately.
I stopped looking at the revised disciplines, for now. but it seems to me that the disciplines are not allocated in a balanced way. the psion particularly seems to get the best abilities: summon stuff, giant growth or shrink, psychic blast and black dragon breath. If it were my home brew (just to give an opinion not a criticism) i would drop the psion all together. making 3 subclasses. then I would limit the disciplines each class can take to its own discipline or to an "open list" which would consist of the psion abilities. and no others. an awakened cannot take an immortal discipline but it can take from the open list. maybe give the soul blade a few disciplines of its own and you are done.
there are my 2cents. overall it is a HUGE improvement on the Mystic class thank you for your clearly hard work!
P.S. diminutive is still ridiculous to me; at the very least it needs to have its movement speed nerfed to the new size. half size half speed. quarter size quarter speed etc. seems appropriate if a little too generous really.
P.P.S. also, for magic and psionics; not only is it easier to make them on the same ground for resistances etc. it makes good sense thematically. Wizards tap into this thing, magic, to create and change the world around them but it follows strict rules. think of it as a 5th force in terms of the nuclear weak force, strong force, elector magnetic force, gravity and magic. it is a science. Psionics does the same thing, tapping into and manipulating these forces, the difference is the method and varying cost of completing the task. teleportation is relatively easy for a mystic to do while melfs acid arrow or tensers floating disc or magic missile is relatively difficult. like chemistry and biology trying to do the same thing. some will have to put for tremendous effort while the other relatively little effort to do the same thing.
Last edited:
Tony Vargas
Legend
If you're half as tall, with the same limb proportions, and still walking with the same gait at the same pace, yeah, you'd cover half the ground. If you were shrunk to teeny size, but still 'walking' at the same speed, you'd either be a blur of tiny steps, or, more likely, each step would be a prodigious leap, like a flea.
'Realistically' (even though, realistically, you can't scale a human up or down a whole lot without the body just failing in some way), the smaller you get, the greater your power:mass ratio and the faster you can move, the more easily you can climb, the more you can lift relative to your body weight, and the further (relative to your height) you can jump.
FWIW. (Nothing, in a fantasy setting.)
Thanks for your feedback! While I personally very much sympathize with removing the Psion class, I hesitate to do that because I think a lot of players want something like it. While my party isn't playing the Psion sub-class, I am putting this out there so that other groups with other interests can benefit.
These are good ideas. In the next version I'll refine the summons flavor and abilities.
Yes, and this is partly because I instinctively allowed the class that my party isn't playing to keep the OP elements. Summoning is something that I think the mystic shouldn't do as efficiently as other classes, similar to how the mystic healing should be less efficient than the cleric's. The same goes for AOE damage. Because they mystic has such a large number of abilities available at any given time, and also the chance to cast them in fewer turns than other classes, then as a result the funtions the mystic does very well or very efficiently needs to be reduced. Already the Mystic is good at spiking single-point damage. The Mystic is very good at control. So adding very efficient AOE damage I think is too much. You want a new class to have something to add to every situation. You don't want them to be the best in every situation.
Exactly right. The trick is creating a compelling reason and flavor for these differences. There is this rich history in legend of doing amazing things through incantations while referencing complex tomes. Rare ingredients may be required. This is the domain of magic. It seems to me that magic could produce more complex effects, with multiple elements, and triggers, and what have you. There is also a tradition of telepathy - communicating to other minds and moving objects with just the mind. I think this latter tradition is what WOTC is building on with this class. But the direct influence of the mind would be harder. The effects would necessarily be more straightforward. But performing them would take less preparation. It would be a faster class. I think that WOTC has done a good job of incorporating these elements into the class.
These are good ideas. In the next version I'll refine the summons flavor and abilities.
Yes, and this is partly because I instinctively allowed the class that my party isn't playing to keep the OP elements. Summoning is something that I think the mystic shouldn't do as efficiently as other classes, similar to how the mystic healing should be less efficient than the cleric's. The same goes for AOE damage. Because they mystic has such a large number of abilities available at any given time, and also the chance to cast them in fewer turns than other classes, then as a result the funtions the mystic does very well or very efficiently needs to be reduced. Already the Mystic is good at spiking single-point damage. The Mystic is very good at control. So adding very efficient AOE damage I think is too much. You want a new class to have something to add to every situation. You don't want them to be the best in every situation.
Exactly right. The trick is creating a compelling reason and flavor for these differences. There is this rich history in legend of doing amazing things through incantations while referencing complex tomes. Rare ingredients may be required. This is the domain of magic. It seems to me that magic could produce more complex effects, with multiple elements, and triggers, and what have you. There is also a tradition of telepathy - communicating to other minds and moving objects with just the mind. I think this latter tradition is what WOTC is building on with this class. But the direct influence of the mind would be harder. The effects would necessarily be more straightforward. But performing them would take less preparation. It would be a faster class. I think that WOTC has done a good job of incorporating these elements into the class.
"The effects would necessarily be more straightforward. But performing them would take less preparation. It would be a faster class. I think that WOTC has done a good job of incorporating these elements into the class."
I agree the1dean, WOTC has a lot to include and to balance in this class and have done quite well so far.
A couple of thoughts on differentiation of subclasses and variance from wizards.
1.) To make it favorable to choose a subclass discipline it could be made to cost 1 psy point less in corresponding class disciplines, making the immortal more likely to favor the immortal disciplines etc. but allowing them to diversify as it seems WOTC wants them to be able to.
2.) Exhaustion is not utilized very much in the standard rules and lots psychic and mystic lore illustrates psychics showing tremendous mental fatigue after putting forth great effort. Imagine utilizing the same disciplines as the UA original, slightly nerfed so they are good at everything but not great at anything, basically they would be second or third best at everything. Then allowing them to go beyond the 7 point restriction by some moderate amount and regaining Psy points at the cost of an exhaustion point. making them very powerful for short periods but at high, lengthy cost.
I agree the1dean, WOTC has a lot to include and to balance in this class and have done quite well so far.
A couple of thoughts on differentiation of subclasses and variance from wizards.
1.) To make it favorable to choose a subclass discipline it could be made to cost 1 psy point less in corresponding class disciplines, making the immortal more likely to favor the immortal disciplines etc. but allowing them to diversify as it seems WOTC wants them to be able to.
2.) Exhaustion is not utilized very much in the standard rules and lots psychic and mystic lore illustrates psychics showing tremendous mental fatigue after putting forth great effort. Imagine utilizing the same disciplines as the UA original, slightly nerfed so they are good at everything but not great at anything, basically they would be second or third best at everything. Then allowing them to go beyond the 7 point restriction by some moderate amount and regaining Psy points at the cost of an exhaustion point. making them very powerful for short periods but at high, lengthy cost.
i like to use "psionics are the same as magic" for stuff like monster resistances, otherwise you'd just blast through everything without qualms whilst your magical party members would be ground to a halt at every encounter. psionics should almost always count as magic in that regard, except where it wouldn't be sensible for a monster to be immune to psionics based on its whatever location or whatnot. mindflayers should def have resistance, hook horrors, lotsa underdark creatures, nymphs, maybe random elves could have immunities....we do use dice and DM could always roll for whether or not a monster has resistances towards mysticisms based on the feeling of the encounter. i enjoy playing a mystic, especially since the march playtest stuff....there are some overpowered abilities, and some that don't seem that useful, but all in all i enjoy being able to epic through silence spells and component-lessness. i seem to utilize the sameish orders and disciplines, based on what i feel is useful, i ususally play the same 5ish setups of class/character anyway though so...
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