Let's Forget the Forgotten Realms

[TwinBahamut]

I think any new setting will suffer from design-by-committee mediocrity.

Why?

WotC has shown that they are fairly good at designing creative settings on a regular basis (just for M:tG, not D&D), and the last original setting they released, Eberron, was certainly not mediocre. Whatever they make can't possibly be worse than the overwritten-to-death Realms, after all.

Still, I support the idea that the next new edition doesn't really need the Realms. The 3E FRCS was the only D&D book I ever returned to the store. I couldn't stand it. It was just one big mass of uninspiring detail with no real hook or concept that lets it stand out. It just didn't grab me at all, and that was with the book that Realms fans can't seem to stop praising... Just not for me, I guess.

 

[Le Noir Faineant]

Yeah, Wizbro might be good on the MtG side, but D&D has suffered, lately.

Golarion, that was good. But Nerath? Or, the other one, that Shadowfell City?

Pweese.

Just that I bought the box and can't remember the name should speak volumes.

 

[Glade Riven]

The Dragonlance novels were my first introduction to Dungeons and Dragons. I read a few Forgotten Realms books, but the original Dragonlance trillogy was better.

I didn't actually start playing D&D until college, about early-to-mid 3.5. The problem I ran into with Forgotten Realms in how it was presented during 3e left me with a feelling that the whole setting was practically mapped out down to every 5 ft square. I found it stifling and dull. What remained of Greyhawk for 3.5 core was...well, also boring.

The settings that grabbed me? Eberron. Dawnforge (runner-up to Eberron in that contest). Iron Kingdoms. Each one for different reasons.

I refuse to run a campaign in Forgotten Realms because I do not want to DM something in which a player can know more about a world than me. Did that with Star Wars. It made DMing not fun. Playing in the setting? I don't mind it, except when a DM feels they need a cameo by Celcius Blackstaff or whatever to appease that one or two Forgotten Realms fanboy in the group.

While I have little interest in buying anything for the setting, I actually do think it would make a good "core setting" for D&D - if tweaked a little. I would prefer something new, but I'd be fine with a slighly rebooted Forgotten Realms as core.

Then I could ignore it and do my own thing like I did with 3e's bastardization of Greyhawk.

 

[GM Dave]

If they do decide to actively support FR in 5e then they should at least do a reverse in time and start fresh at 100 years prior to the Time of Troubles.

This would give the designers and players still the 'base' world that people are familiar with working and writing within.

Much of Ed's work is detailed enough to help cover this period of time.

Many of the big name characters are long lived enough that 100 years prior to the time of troubles is still within their life time but covers more of their 'youth'.

Players and GMs could then use the new material with their saved older material to create 'generation' stories. They would have mapped out over 200 years of time covering from before the Time of Troubles to after the Spell Plague. A player with an elf or dwarf could cover some adventures in their youth (Heroic), later life around the Time of Troubles (Paragon), and finally dealing with the true insanity of the Spell Plague (Epic). Other players could deal with characters that are the children, grand children, and great grand children of their human or halfling parents.

It also gives the GMs that dislike Dragonborn and Tiefling a go to time when these don't need to be included in their campaigns.

Older materials can be justified as being still 'there' in developing forms while there is still plenty of space for horrors to have existed and been wiped out between the prior 100 years and the Time of Troubles period.

 

[Mercurius]

Without having read this thread, I like your rant [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION] but I don't really disagree with your assertion that the Forgotten Realms is lacking in unique flavor. Despite its faults, I think it does have it owns "Realmsian vibe," or at least it did pre-4E/spellplague.

My history with the Realms goes back to 1987. I'm about your age so I was 13 going on 14 and I remember seeing ads for the Realms on the back covers of comic books and in Dragon magazine and being enthralled with the original logo. I called around local gaming stores (back then there must have been three times as many as there are now) and found a single copy at a game store across town; I took a bus there and was very excited to get my hands on the grey box which was, at the time, a revelation in setting design (I only had the Greyhawk box set at that point and a couple Dragonlance products).

I've never run a game in a pre-made setting, but have always enjoyed collecting and reading setting materials. The old grey box (or at least its contents; the box is long gone) and the 3E tome remain two of my favorite setting products.

The Realms aren't one of my very favorite settings, and I find many of its qualities annoying, but I think you should consider picking up the grey box, Morrus, to get a feeling of the original Greenwood-only Forgotten Realms, and maybe the 3E book as an example of one of the best setting products ever. Even if you don't like the Realms, they're worthy additions of any gaming collection.

 

[Morrus]

Without having read this thread, I like your rant @Morrus

I'm not sure I'd call it a rant - more an appeal for more Greyhawk! I feel it has been sadly neglected.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

(like I care about Doctor Who, I guess - he's a friggin' Time Lord and Elminster wouldn't stand a chance: he laughs at your 3E Time Stop exploit) but I do not share that passion.

In many ways you have summed up my opinions on Dr. Who

*

Spoiler

insulting abbreviation is intentional

 

[Charwoman Gene]

"MOAR GRAYHAUK, LESS REALMS" is pretty much a war chant trying to start a war alliance between 1e and 3e players versus 2e and 4e players.

 

[Alzrius]

You know, I liked that the Forgotten Realms was such a massively-detailed world. I liked that you could really sink your teeth into a lot of minute, interconnected facts about the setting that spanned great distances and lots of time. It invited almost-scholarly research that could be done about the setting, making it not only very rich for those who preferred such detail in their games, but was also fun on its own. I enjoyed the designers who played up that aspect of the series (here's to you, Eric L. Boyd!).

A lot of people have complaints about this part of the game, and those complaints are the legitimate flipside to having a setting this detailed. But you know what? There are other settings that are much lighter on what they present and so lend themselves to a more fill-it-in-yourself style (Greyhawk is a superb example of this), so why can't we have one game world that goes all-in with what it presents?

 

[Mercurius]

I'm not sure I'd call it a rant - more an appeal for more Greyhawk! I feel it has been sadly neglected.

But do you really want more Greyhawk over, say, a new setting? Don't we have enough Greyhawk already?

I get that it is fun and nice and pleasurable to see one's favorite setting get a fancy new book, but I honestly don't understand the preference of a re-boot over a new setting. I'm always curious about what sort of new rabbits WotC can pull out of a hat; given that Nentir Vale has never been fully developed, it has been eight years since WotC published a major new setting with Eberron back in 2004.

More on this in another thread...