D&D 5E Lets Rank the 5e Skills!

[Emerikol]

I reject the notion that all skills have to have an adventuring applicability or they are useless. No one will be ruined by a less than useful adventuring skill. Some people just want something to complete their concept.

And no just getting it for free doesn't work. If you don't earn it it's worthless as a source of satisfaction.

So I'm in the more skills camp. Though I'm okay with overarching skills that you specify like performance(guitar)

 

[Starfox]

Free skill/stat combinations are hard in my experience too. Vampire had it (maybe still has it) to detrimental effect. There are two problems:

Player agency/ When your Int/Investigation character suffers the indignity of having to roll Str/Investigation because the GM put the clue under a rock.

Creative Deadlock/ The 2 minute break in the action to negotiate what attribute/skill combination this particular task falls under.

 

[Gradine]

I don't have a ton of experience with 4e, but they threw Search in with Perception in that edition, right? I suspect that may be why some folks aren't understanding the split between Perception and Investigation in 5e. My understanding is that Search is back. Finding traps, hidden treasure, secret/concealed doors; these are the realm of Investigation. Perception might give you clues that something is amiss (wind blowing through a door, faint bloodstains near a trap) but without Investigation you're not finding the mechanism or the portal in question.

Investigation isn't as necessarily vital as Perception, but I'd contend it's a weird game that doesn't often require Investigation checks.

 

[Stalker0]

Insight:Your Wisdom (Insight) check determines whether you can determine the true intentions of a creature, such as when searching out a lie or predicting someone's next move. Doing so involves gleaning clues from body language, speech habits, and changes in mannerisms.

I agree that insight is often "overblown" as far as what it can do.

I think it stems from the fact that in reality...humans are REALLY bad at it. We as a species are much better at lieing than lie detecting.

Even the best lie detectors in the world cannot just outright say "this guy is lieing.". You can get inklings, but it usually takes a lot of interactions with a person before you can know with confidence that they are deceiving you.

 

[Pickles JG]

I reject the notion that all skills have to have an adventuring applicability or they are useless. No one will be ruined by a less than useful adventuring skill. Some people just want something to complete their concept.

And no just getting it for free doesn't work. If you don't earn it it's worthless as a source of satisfaction.

So I'm in the more skills camp. Though I'm okay with overarching skills that you specify like performance(guitar)

My 4e rogue earned his cooking skills by continuously & consistently role-playing his chef roots & making every quest a search for exotic ingredients.

They had no game rules but I was often able to get bonuses or automatic successes to skill rolls pertaining to haute cuisine (well bas cuisine).

 

[Essenti]

*snip* Finding traps, hidden treasure, secret/concealed doors; these are the realm of Investigation. Perception might give you clues that something is amiss (wind blowing through a door, faint bloodstains near a trap) but without Investigation you're not finding the mechanism or the portal in question.

Investigation isn't as necessarily vital as Perception, but I'd contend it's a weird game that doesn't often require Investigation checks.

I wish this were actually the case in the Starter Set adventure. Perception alone is used to notice traps and to actively search for them, which is a shame. I absolutely prefer the idea that passive perception is there to give you a clue that something is amiss, and not necessarily find a trap. Investigation skill should be used for actively searching.

This would go a long way toward putting perception back in line with the other skills.

 

[Gradine]

I wish this were actually the case in the Starter Set adventure. Perception alone is used to notice traps and to actively search for them, which is a shame. I absolutely prefer the idea that passive perception is there to give you a clue that something is amiss, and not necessarily find a trap. Investigation skill should be used for actively searching.

This would go a long way toward putting perception back in line with the other skills.

Yeah, I saw that after I posted. It's unfortunate, and frankly wrong. The apparent overlap in the way these two skills are presented is the first big misstep for me in this edition. Fortunately it's easy to fix as a DM.

The big issue is the way they've written Perception. It shouldn't get to do pretty much everything that Investigation does and at my table it won't.

 

[Quickleaf]

I wish this were actually the case in the Starter Set adventure. Perception alone is used to notice traps and to actively search for them, which is a shame. I absolutely prefer the idea that passive perception is there to give you a clue that something is amiss, and not necessarily find a trap. Investigation skill should be used for actively searching.

This would go a long way toward putting perception back in line with the other skills.

Yeah, after re-reading the Basic D&D sidebar on page 61 about "Finding Hidden Objects" I am not sure ethe writers had a clear distinction between Perception and Investigation.

Perception is specifically called out as being used to sense hiding monsters, notice secret doors, and detect traps. Moreover, when you "plot around a room searching for clues" you don't find anything unless you specify where you are looking, in which case you either automatically succeed (if it would be obvious) or roll Perception (if it would be hidden and requires thorough searching).

*blink*

Uh, that sounds like a textbook example of Investigation to me. Investigation is specifically called out as a way to deduce the location of a hidden object...maybe what was meant by "hidden object" in this context was "buried treasure" or some other McGuffin that is not immediately present or the PCs are searching for via a string of clues rather than trial-and-error Perception?

Looking at the other uses for Investigation...discerning what kind of weapon caused a wound, finding the weak point in a tunnel, or searching for a hidden fragment of lore in an ancient scroll...this interpretation fits in with the overall theme. Investigation is about interpreting the obvious in un-obvious ways.

From this perspective, Investigation could powerfully "augment" what characters do with other skills...

Perception notices the hidden forms lurking behind the manor doors, but Investigation deduces that the princess didn't exit thru the doors because she was never seen in public without her signature sapphire comb which is still on the table.

Medicine diagnoses the disease, but Investigation deduces that the one thing the victims have in common is drinking from the same water source.

Insight realizes that the princess' interest in caring for the diseased goes beyond altruism to the personal, but Investigation deduces that the unusually feminine handkerchief they found in the tanner's home in the quarantine zone belongs to the princess because the weaver signature matches that on the princess' bed sheets.

Etc.

 

[Stalker0]

Yeah, after re-reading the Basic D&D sidebar on page 61 about "Finding Hidden Objects" I am not sure ethe writers had a clear distinction between Perception and Investigation.

This is in a nutshell why I ranked investigation much lower than perception in my initial run. While some DMs will use investigation, and probably use it frequently, I bet if the skill didn't exist most wouldn't notice. It would just be perception...or perception using INT.

 

[Emerikol]

My 4e rogue earned his cooking skills by continuously & consistently role-playing his chef roots & making every quest a search for exotic ingredients.

They had no game rules but I was often able to get bonuses or automatic successes to skill rolls pertaining to haute cuisine (well bas cuisine).

That is good. I'd prefer to have an in game representation. I see it as time spent studying. I only have so much. If I choose to be a master chef, maybe I don't sneak as well. Master Chef may not be as valuable in a dungeon as sneaking and that is okay. No one is forced to take master chef.