Let's talk about Exotic Weapons

[Felon]

The concept of exotic weapons really appealed to me when 3e came out. I thought that they would open up avenues for creating distinct characters. I'd envisioned playing a bounty hunter character taking down foes with bolas, nets, and an aresnal of other unusual weapons that enemies would be completely unprepared for.

Today, exotic weapons are basically a red-headed stepchild in my gaming circles, with only a scant few seeing any widespread usage (certainly not the bola heh), and game elements such as feats and prestige classes rarely incorproate them.

I really think exotic weapons could stand some revisitation. I was kind of hoping we'd get another "Complete" book this year that at least partially focused on the concept of weapon mastery, but no news of another Complete book of any kind is coming down the pipeline (which IMO supports the suspicion that 4th edition is due for a GenCon Indy announcement).

What's the state of the union with exotic weapons in your campaign? Ever seen a PC use a bola? Any house rules crop up to make training in exotic weapons more advantageous?

NOTE: Please avoid overt discussion of the "realism" of certain exotic weapons.

 

[blargney the second]

With UA weapon groups, I see them a fair bit more frequently.

 

[Wik]

What's the state of the union with exotic weapons in your campaign? Ever seen a PC use a bola? Any house rules crop up to make training in exotic weapons more advantageous?

The bola? Yeah, we saw it all the time... in 2e.

We were DARK SUN players, and that weapon just fit. For a while, all my characters had proficiency in it. And I know a couple of other PCs had it, too. Fun weapon, that.

***

In 3.5 D&D, we don't see exotic weapons crop up too much... about the only one I ever see is the Bastard Sword, which is fairly rare, as Sword and Board doesn't come around too much. I guess the Dragon Shaman *did* have a War Axe, but then, name one dwarf that doesn't, right?

 

[IceFractal]

The problem is that usually an Exotic weapon ends up just being the same as a normal weapon but doing slightly more damage - not even enough to merit the feat, in most cases. There's the cool image, but given that weapon descriptions vary anyway, it's generally simpler to just say your "half-bladed scythe-axe" is a Greataxe for stat purposes.

The only PHB exotic weapons that actually work in a special way are the Whip, Spiked Chain, Bolas, and Net. Of those, the Spiked Chain is actually used (and whined about), the Whip is hindered by it's strange armor mechanic, the Bolas require a rare fighting style (ranged tripping), and the Net is only useful for the right kind of foes, and is rather flimsy at high levels (however, Nets are great for throwing via Telekinesis, especially if you want to capture someone without killing them, or slow down a BBEG long enough to retreat).


One solution would be more feat chains, that make a particular exotic weapon both worth the feat investment, and different in play from standard weapons. I believe there are some weapon style feats in this direction, but there could definitely be more.

For instance, for Bolas (specific details and prerequisites not determined):
Entangling Spin - You can use your Dexterity instead of Strength when tripping with Bolas, and count as one size larger for the Trip check.

Binding Cords - When you trip an opponent using Bolas, they must also make a Reflex save or be entangled for the next round.

Wrap 'em Tight (requires Binding Cords) - After entangling an opponent, further hits increase the duration of entangling by one round each.

Wide Flying Cord - By taking a penalty to your attack roll (and/or trip check?) you can affect two adjacent foes with a single Bolas throw.

 

[Imp]

I have Exotic Weapon Proficiencies, which cover groups (stealth weapons: blowguns, hand crossbow, sap; subdual weapons: whip, net, and bolas; monk weapons; firearms). Then I have Advanced Weapon Proficiencies which work for one weapon each and provide mechanical benefits. These can be applied to martial or even simple weapons if I have them written up. F'rex, AWP: Salamanhari Spearmanship allows the use of a spear as a one-handed weapon or as a double weapon doing quarterstaff damage with the butt end.

 

[Tetsubo]

The only Exotic weapon I can remember seeing used was a Dwarven Waraxe. And only because the player was a Dwarf...

I've always thought the Goliath Greathammer was cool but I haven't had a chance to use it in play...

One of the problems with how 3.5 deals with Exotic weapons is the confusion concerning the term. "Exotic" is used to describe two different classes of weapons: ones that are rare foreign bits of technology AND weapons that are harder to use and require additional training.

Example: The sickle and the kama, why is one Exotic? They play the EXACT same role within their respective cultures, cutting plants by hand. They should have the same stats. If the Monk class can do spiffy things with such an item that ability should be built into the CLASS, not the WEAPON.

If the game only used the definition of a very complex weapon that required additional training I think a good deal of the confusion surround Exotic weapons would be clear up. It would require taking a second look at all of the Exotic weapons and making determinations based on their actual use and mechanical advantage. It would also require to my mind looking at the "realism" of the weapons as well... but that falls outside of this topic.

Taking a look at the SRD I think I would keep the following weapons in the Exotic category: the one-handed Exotic/two-handed martial group (bastard sword, waraxe, maul), whip, the double ended weapons (the current two-handed list in the SRD), bolas and net. The others I would either make martial or just drop as I don't see a reason for them. A dagger makes a fine substitute for a siagham. If Monk's can do neat things with daggers build it into the class, not the mechanics of the weapon. Sickle = kama as well.

And I'd lose the spiked chain completely... I'd make the dire flail a purely chain weapon without a solid shaft. Call it the Dire Chain or Great Chain or some other bit of fluff...

But how is a crossbow that is a foot long SO MUCH different from all the other types of crossbows to require it being Exotic? A crossbow is a crossbow is a crossbow... I could see a very large crossbow (arbelast) being Martial. So making a very small crossbow Martial as well (the hand crossbow) would make sense. But Exotic? No...

These comments are just off the cuff though...

 

[Tetsubo]

I have Exotic Weapon Proficiencies, which cover groups (stealth weapons: blowguns, hand crossbow, sap; subdual weapons: whip, net, and bolas; monk weapons; firearms). Then I have Advanced Weapon Proficiencies which work for one weapon each and provide mechanical benefits. These can be applied to martial or even simple weapons if I have them written up. F'rex, AWP: Salamanhari Spearmanship allows the use of a spear as a one-handed weapon or as a double weapon doing quarterstaff damage with the butt end.

There you go! Build the additional benefits into the CHARACTER, not the WEAPON.

I've often thought that ALL weapons should have stats that reflect only Simple weapon mechanically. If you have greater training you could do greater damage, have longer ranges etc. So a class with Martial training would do Martial weapon types of damage. And a class with access to even MORE training would have access to the Exotic group of abilities any given weapon would have. So EVERY weapon would be Simple, Martial AND Exotic all at once. The training of the character would determine how they used said weapon... really skilled character might even have access to groups of Exotic weapons... (Monks and highly focused Fighters for example).

 

[ephemeron]

I've often thought that ALL weapons should have stats that reflect only Simple weapon mechanically. If you have greater training you could do greater damage, have longer ranges etc. So a class with Martial training would do Martial weapon types of damage. And a class with access to even MORE training would have access to the Exotic group of abilities any given weapon would have. So EVERY weapon would be Simple, Martial AND Exotic all at once. The training of the character would determine how they used said weapon... really skilled character might even have access to groups of Exotic weapons... (Monks and highly focused Fighters for example).

One of the interesting optional systems in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia was a way of doing that. Characters got "weapon choices" every few levels, and could either spend them to become proficient in new weapons, or to get better at using weapons they were already proficient in. Each weapon had five levels of mastery, and in addition to extra damage and attacks, a lot of weapons gained special abilities along the progression from Basic to Grand Master.

Unfortunately, I've never gotten the chance to try it out, so I don't know how it works in actual play.

 

[FireLance]

I've often thought that ALL weapons should have stats that reflect only Simple weapon mechanically. If you have greater training you could do greater damage, have longer ranges etc. So a class with Martial training would do Martial weapon types of damage. And a class with access to even MORE training would have access to the Exotic group of abilities any given weapon would have. So EVERY weapon would be Simple, Martial AND Exotic all at once. The training of the character would determine how they used said weapon... really skilled character might even have access to groups of Exotic weapons... (Monks and highly focused Fighters for example).

Something like this: Weapon knacks?

 

[Imp]

I've often thought that ALL weapons should have stats that reflect only Simple weapon mechanically. If you have greater training you could do greater damage, have longer ranges etc. So a class with Martial training would do Martial weapon types of damage. And a class with access to even MORE training would have access to the Exotic group of abilities any given weapon would have. So EVERY weapon would be Simple, Martial AND Exotic all at once.

Well, I don't know about all of 'em. There should still be room for "you'll get yourself killed using a sword like that!" IMO... but a lot of weapons, sure. Having a character with Simple weapon proficiency treat, say, axes (any one-handed ax) as 1d6 damage and 20/x2 critical seems reasonable. A bit of the converse is interesting, too – what if throwing daggers was considered a Martial weapon proficiency (that, for genre sake, rogues get too)? It's not as though throwing knives is just an easy skill for able-bodied men IRL to pick up on the side.