Let's talk about minions...

[Ourph]

It might not be what you were complaining about but it is what the discussion has been concentrating on.

Yeah, probably should have forked the "Nat 20 rule" discussion to a new thread. Sorry for the threadjack.

 

[Spatula]

Hatchlings would make fine minions. They could offer some really good tactical conundrums too if the parent dragon gets combat bonuses for watching it's babies die. Kill the hatchling and mommy will be pissed, don't kill the hatching and it will be zipping across the battlefield harassing whoever it can.

Yeah, I was thinking that it would be a good use for hatchlings too. The kruthiks (sp?) work like that (hatchlings are minions).

 

[AllisterH]

My fiance, who had never played any edition other than 4e, asked me when I mentioned the auto-hit on a 20 rule: "But if the game is set up so that you hit when you roll an 8 or a 12 or something, doesn't that mean that anything you can only hit on a 20 is probably going to kill you anyway?"

Make sure you marry this woman Cadfan.

She shows MUCH wisdom

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yes, this clears up a lot of difficulties. What's an appropriate level, though? 4 under minion level? 2 under? Minion level? At what point are we in farmer vs pit fiend territory?

There is no hard and fast rule, but I would start with a level difference of 5 or larger. I use this as a guideline because the rules suggest you can scale up or down a monsters level by 5 by adjusting attack, damage, defenses and hit points.

Another way to consider it is looking at the XP values. If a Minion is worth as much (or more) then a monster of the "farmers" level, it should no longer be described as a Minion and use a equal level monster stat-block. I am not sure, but I think that would imply a 10 level difference in most cases?

My fiance, who had never played any edition other than 4e, asked me when I mentioned the auto-hit on a 20 rule: "But if the game is set up so that you hit when you roll an 8 or a 12 or something, doesn't that mean that anything you can only hit on a 20 is probably going to kill you anyway?"

Yes.

Henry is mentioning an interesting example - what if it just certain conditional circumstances that force you to roll a 20 to succeed? I am not sure that really much is lost if you can't hit at all in such a situation, assuming it lasts only for a short time (or the penalties are entirely dependent on the PCs actions, as in not result of monster attacks and special abilities.)

 

[Calico_Jack73]

My group found out just how dangerous minions can be in the Irontooth engagement in Keep on the Shadowfell. The Dragonshields were getting +1 to hit for each kobold adjacent to their target. If nothing else the minion Kobolds were simply making the Dragonshields hit much more often than they normally would have.

My first real exposure to Minions was in Skull & Bones. I liked the idea that it allowed NPCs that had high ranks in skills yet were common townsfolk who still had much to fear from low CR monsters. A Level 10 Commoner Blacksmith might pack a wallop with a hammer but a Skeleton could still take him down in a couple of hits (minions in Skull & Bones only had HP equal to their CON and it never got better).

 

[Cadfan]

Make sure you marry this woman Cadfan.

She shows MUCH wisdom

Wedding is scheduled within the month, actually.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Wedding is scheduled within the month, actually.

Wow, you didn't have to be that fast in following AllisterH's advice!

Congratulations

 

[Cadfan]

I did say earlier that she was my fiance.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I did say earlier that she was my fiance.

And of course you'd expect us me to remember what you wrote 5 minutes, 5 hours or 5 days ago?

 

[Jhaelen]

Either the minion has 1hp or it doesn't.

Minions are the D&D implementation of quantum physics:
They can have 1hp and at the same time not have 1hp and still make perfect sense.

Unfortunately as is the case with quantum physics there are those who simply don't get minions.