D&D 5E (2024) Let's Write A High Level Adventure

[Chaltab]

For 4 level 16 PCs you need at least 3 Balors for a deadly encounter.

The last big fight we had in that Wrath of the Righteous campaign was a Balor, a Goristro, and Baphomet.

 

[Zardnaar]

So monsters were designed around four member parties; so your 13th level party was more like a 15th level party. And if your players were good at system optimization/tactical play, they're more like an 18th level party. And if they had a good amount of magic items on them, they would be more like a 20th level party. So them ripping through 19 CR monsters is quite reasonable.

CR 19 plus friends. High encounter. 5 encounters that day. To really grind them down it was 9 of various difficulties.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

CR 19 plus friends. High encounter. 5 encounters that day. To really grind them down it was 9 of various difficulties.

Given how long even a few high level combats last, you are talking about 5-10 hours in the real world of continuous combat grind. Is that fun?

 

[Zardnaar]

Given how long even a few high level combats last, you are talking about 5-10 hours in the real world of continuous combat grind. Is that fun?

As DM no. It took 3 sessions. That's using RAW xp bucket and a variety of encounters.

Players gave feedback later over what they found the hardest. Solo critters steamrolled., fodder pointless multiple mid CR stuff and CR 2-4 fodder worked the best. But took the longest to play out. Spread them out a bit.

Harder to run with a variety of creatures.

Tarraesque RAW you need a 7 person party level 20. Big T will likely last 1 maybe 2 rounds.

Command spam wrecks solos. Few creatures slow/fear, 1-3 twinned hold monster. Anything with a weak wisdom save is essentially 0 or 1/3rd of what's printed.

I used a lot of spellcasters as well. Not everyone encounter but every dungeon 7+. Rerolls and circle of power were great for them. Cultists of the dead 3.

 

[Reynard]

If youre playing RAW good luck with that.

Encounter design is key.

Theres not that many high CR critters and ive had level 13 PCs chop 16-19 CR critters apart in a round or two. Tough ones and DM specisl last 3 rounds.


That's what 5E PCs are capable of. You can abuse the CR system but combat takes a while and its not easy with a MM.

This is not a helpful post.

 

[dave2008]

oh wow. where's that in the adventure?

Chapter 11, but it states it can happen at any time. See below

 

[AnotherGuy]

@dave2008 I'm in two minds of acquiring this product as the creator created so much additional content for it. In your opinion do you think it's a worthwhile resource if you're running BG: DiA or unnecessary?
I've already got the Guide DiA as a Sandbox and looking at the Alexandrian Remix. Just fighing with my OCD

 

[Marc17]

How high are we talking about? Balor plus friends lvl 13 the balir lasted 2 rounds. Once its legendary resistance ran out banish.

How about this, the Pit Fiend wants to lose.

The party tracks down the Pit Fiend in this scenario and burst in on where it is laired, and it's a party. Large room with at least a hundred people, some masked, some in rags, probably missing commoners that have been mentioned earlier in some session. There are many tables blocking the way filled with food and drink. The room is lit by eight huge oil lamps in the form of a giant glass globe. These are suspended from the ceiling by ropes that go through a maze of pulleys and then back down to eight commoners holding those ropes. There are also eight commoners holding incense censors giving off a pungent white smoke that makes the players feel funny in the wiffs they get through the door. The Pit Fiend sits on a platform at the other end of the room with dancers in a space in front of him. He says "Welcome, welcome, please come in of your own free will." (Make the scene properly further horrific to the limits of your players.)

The Pit Fiend wants the PCs to start a fight and figures he is going to lose. That is the point. He will offer the PCs food and drink. Slowly getting more and more insulting to goad them into attacking. He wants the PCs to start a fight with plenty of collateral damage in the commoners around them. It's how he has fun. If the PCs fight, there are some cultists to cast Jallarzi's on the spell casters. Some Cambions to cast command on the spell casters in the Jallarzi's and make them grovel (since 5.24 Command does not require the affected to be able to hear or understand any more). Any attacks on those holding the ropes will make them let go. The oil lamps will cause pools of flames: 10' radius and 3d6 damage on round 1, 20' radius and 2d6 damage on round 2, and finally 30' radius and 1d6 damage till round 5. The insence is just drugs that will make them feel funny, with no game effects, but maybe some PC will spend some actions trying to deal with them. The commoners have all be properly traumatized so they will mass on the PCs to beg them not to fight (once they start) as they will all be killed. They will even grapple or fight with dinner wear to keep them from entering the dancing area. If the PCs don't attack, the Pit Fiend gives and order and all the crowd, except the ones holding ropes or incense, pull out a (Rival) Coin (marked with the heads of the Pit Fiends and Balor, a gift for the PCs), flip it and look at the adventurer they find prettiest (hopefully to concentrate attacks), but of course half the humans in the crowd will scream in pain and perhaps even die instead. The PCs can always just back out of the room and come back later, but the situation will have probably changed by then. However, the Pit Fiend hopes to be killed and go home after a bunch of commoners have been killed, so he can then look at taunting the PCs for the deaths on their hands. His followers in the crowd have orders to flee and start preparing for his return once he is put down.

I'm still working out for something for the Balor to have set up.

 

[dave2008]

@dave2008 I'm in two minds of acquiring this product as the creator created so much additional content for it. In your opinion do you think it's a worthwhile resource if you're running BG: DiA or unnecessary?
I've already got the Guide DiA as a Sandbox and looking at the Alexandrian Remix. Just fighing with my OCD

Unfortunately I am a terrible resource when it comes to published adventures. I have not run BG: DiA or CoA or any published adventure since 4e (and white plume mountain before that). I only buy adventures to mine for ideas and/or mechanics - I don't run them.

So I really have no idea if it is a good follow up to BG: DiA or not. Sorry!

 

[Stormonu]

One thing I think we can do that would help is to examine what 16th level 5E PCs are capable of. Not so much to guard against those things, but to actually incorporate some of them and make them matter. I hate when high level adventures nerf characters of those levels just to "work."

While I certainly would avoid the ham-fisted hobbling of older editions (usually by denying or twisting the useage of spells), sometimes using the environment to put a monkeywrench into the straightforward approach makes things interesting. I think for a lot of these high level encounters that the environment is going to have to be an enemy/factor as much as the physical foes to challenge the PCs. I'm not just talking about putting the fight into a field of burning lava that deals damage but that hinders/limit movement or actions, changes the effectiveness of certain attacks or abilities or mucks with PCs ability to choose their targets.

In short, make the combat into a puzzle so novaing & focus fire can't be the go-to tactic.

If youre playing RAW good luck with that.

Encounter design is key.

Theres not that many high CR critters and ive had level 13 PCs chop 16-19 CR critters apart in a round or two. Tough ones and DM specisl last 3 rounds.


That's what 5E PCs are capable of. You can abuse the CR system but combat takes a while and its not easy with a MM.

While I don't play much high level, I much prefer using numbers than attempting to "top out" and overwhelm the PCs through superior power directed into a single (or dual) opponent. Outnumbering the party goes a long ways towards splitting firepower and resources. I also think it makes an interesting encounter if the PCs have to make (hard) choices on where to direct their firepower and who to take out first and gives the Leader/Boss/Subboss some ablative armor to let them do their thing before being taken out.

How about this, the Pit Fiend wants to lose.

Doesn't even have to be that; Demons & Devils that aren't on their home plane return and reform on their home plane if defeated, and they can hold quite the grudge. If we were to use the scenario I suggested earlier, it could be the Pit Fiend and Balor are watching from a Yugoloth's "gaming" abode in Gehenna (neutral ground), for example.