Level Adjustment Thread for Awakened Animals

[Conaill]

Ok, you Level Adjustment experts... Id like to invite you to drop by my brand-spanking-new Awakened Animal thread and give me some feedback on the Awakened template, and/or post some awakened animal LA's. (If we could come up with a general formula for awakened animal LA, that would be even better!)

 

[Leopold]

Ok, you Level Adjustment experts... Id like to invite you to drop by my brand-spanking-new Awakened Animal thread and give me some feedback on the Awakened template, and/or post some awakened animal LA's. (If we could come up with a general formula for awakened animal LA, that would be even better!)

posted

 

[Conaill]

Sorry to hear about your computer, Leopold... bummer dude!

If you find some time, could you drop by Animals as cohorts or the Awakened Animal thread, and give us your opinion about the awakened tiger? Right now I'm thinking LA +3 for a total ECL of 11, based on a Fighter and a Monk comparison.

I'd like to close the book on this one sometime soon, so we can move on to some other targets. We haven't done any flyers yet, and the Eagle looks like it might be a good place to start (3HD, Small, Dex +4, Con +2, Wis +4)

 

[Leopold]

Stat it out for me or copy and paste something for me to look at.

 

[Conaill]

One Awakened Eagle, coming up!

AWAKENED EAGLE
Small Animal
Hit Dice: 3d8+3 (16 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares), fly 80 ft. (average)
Armor Class: 14 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +1 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/–2
Attack: Talons +5 melee (1d4)
Full Attack: 2 talons +5 melee (1d4) and bite +0 melee (1d4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60', low-light vision
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +3
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +16
Feats: Flyby Attack, Weapon Finesse
Environment: Temperate mountains
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 1
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: ?

Skills: Eagles have a +8 racial bonus on Spot checks.

Note that I gave this one Flyby Attack as its extra 3HD feat, to match the Giant Eagle. (Giant Eagle is Large, 4HD, CR 3, LA +2, Str 18, Dex 17)

 

[Leopold]

see doing it like this allows me to view it easier.

 

[Conaill]

Any estimates for the Awakened Eagle? I figure it's at least a +1 LA. The fly 80 ft probably balances out the lack of hands, it gets three attacks (each doing shortsword damage, and all could benefit from Sneak Attack damage), and a great Dex and Wis score. Let's try out a +1 LA Rogue build:

AwEagle/Rog1:
HD 3d8+1d6+4 (21 hp)
Init +2
AC 14
Full [Sneak] Attack: 2 talons +5 melee (1d4[+1d6]) and bite +0 melee (1d4[+1d6])
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +3
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +16, 8 more skill points (total 16)

Rog5:
HD 5d6 (17 hp)
Init +0
AC 10 + armor
Full [Sneak] Attack: shortsword +3 melee (1d4[+3d6])
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +1
Skills: 64 skill points, but fewer stat bonuses

Seems more or less balanced. The Rog5's hp and base AC are less, but he has an easier time using healing potions and armor, and has Uncanny Dodge. Eagle can do more damage on a full attack (18 avg), but the Rog will do more damage on a regular attack (13 avg). Eagle has much better saves, but lacks Evasion. And apart from Spot, the Rog5 definitely wins out in the skills department. (Assume both try to max out 8 skills... Eagle can get +2 stat bonuses on 8 skills, +8 to Spot, +4 to Hide (Small size) and 16 skill points ... total 44 ranks and bonuses, versus 64 skill points for the Rog5)

 

[Conaill]

Just to be complete... here's a Rog4 and a Rog6 as well:

Rog4:
HD 4d6 (14 hp)
Init +0
AC 10 + armor
Full [Sneak] Attack: shortsword +3 melee (1d4[+2d6])
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +1
Skills: 56 skill points

Rog6:
HD 6d6 (21 hp)
Init +0
AC 10 + armor
Full [Sneak] Attack: shortsword +4 melee (1d4[+3d6])
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +2
Skills: 72 skill points

The Rog4 is definitely underpowered compared to the AwEagle/Rog1. The Rog6 is closer, but has almost twice as many skills and two more feats (one for human, one for 6th lvl).

Considering Giant Eagle is +2 LA (with *much* better stats), I think +1 LA is reasonable for the awakened eagle...

 

[Conaill]

Anyone have a preference for which animal to do next?

I made a crude little model to estimate LA's (just a linear regression based on size, HD, natural armor, stats, skill bonuses, flight and hands), and here's a selection of animals that I think would be useful:

- Small Viper (+0 LA?)
- Dire Rat (+0 or +1 LA?)
- Dire Weasel (+1 LA?)
- Cheetah (+1 or +2 LA?)
- Boar or Dire Badger (+2 LA?)
- Giant Squid (+2 or +3 LA?)
- Elasmosaurus or Dire Wolverine (+3 LA?)
- Brown Bear (+3 or +4 LA?)
- Elephant (+4 LA?)

We can really use some +2 LA examples, but I'm open to any suggestions from this list, or any other favorite animals...

 

[Leopold]

Any estimates for the Awakened Eagle? I figure it's at least a +1 LA. The fly 80 ft probably balances out the lack of hands, it gets three attacks (each doing shortsword damage, and all could benefit from Sneak Attack damage), and a great Dex and Wis score. Let's try out a +1 LA Rogue build:

AwEagle/Rog1:
HD 3d8+1d6+4 (21 hp)
Init +2
AC 14
Full [Sneak] Attack: 2 talons +5 melee (1d4[+1d6]) and bite +0 melee (1d4[+1d6])
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +3
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +16, 8 more skill points (total 16)

Rog5:
HD 5d6 (17 hp)
Init +0
AC 10 + armor
Full [Sneak] Attack: shortsword +3 melee (1d4[+3d6])
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +1
Skills: 64 skill points, but fewer stat bonuses

Seems more or less balanced. The Rog5's hp and base AC are less, but he has an easier time using healing potions and armor, and has Uncanny Dodge. Eagle can do more damage on a full attack (18 avg), but the Rog will do more damage on a regular attack (13 avg). Eagle has much better saves, but lacks Evasion. And apart from Spot, the Rog5 definitely wins out in the skills department. (Assume both try to max out 8 skills... Eagle can get +2 stat bonuses on 8 skills, +8 to Spot, +4 to Hide (Small size) and 16 skill points ... total 44 ranks and bonuses, versus 64 skill points for the Rog5)

I'd give the eagle a 0 LA. It has no hands which prevent it from using wands, scrolls, rods, and weapons. It would need barding to make use of armor and get it custom made.

Compare it to the rogue the lack of evasion is HUGE, at low level it's all about dodging that fireball.

I'd probably compare this to a ranger as it's more in line with it if needbe.

Still the lack of hands is at least -1 to LA calculations when considering a total.