Level Adjustments vs Racial Levels

[dvvega]

Okay ... I've recently picked some of the new Complete <RACE> books (Stone, Destiny). Some of the races have a Level Adjustment to use.

This means they are the equivalent of a character level + the LA

However then the there are those races that state that you may instead take racial levels and no Level Adjustment.

However by the end of the racial levels, you are weaker than if you'd taken just the level adjustment in the first place.

How does this work?

D

 

[Darkness]

Hm, you shouldn't be weaker. It should be exactly the same.

Let's look at one of them, the feral gargun, and see if we can isolate the problem.

They have:

• +4 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha.
• Medium size, speed 30'
• Darkvision 60'
• Powerful build
• 2 racial Hit Dice (and all that entails - saves, skills, 1 feat, etc.)
• Mountain movement
• Acclimated
• Cold resistance 5
• Natural armor +2
• WP: Simple
• 2 claws (1d6)
• Goliath blood
• Fav class: Bbn
• Level Adjustment: +2

The feral gargun has an LA of +2 and 2 racial HD. Thus, its ECL is 4 - i.e., it costs 4 levels.
Thus, the feral gargun monster class ought to have 4 levels.

And it does. So far, so good. If you take the feral gargun monster class, you start with the racial traits and whatever the first level gives you.

Feral gargun racial traits:

• +2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha.
• Medium size, speed 30'
• Darkvision 60'
• Mountain movement
• Cold resistance 5
• WP: Simple
• Goliath blood
• Fav class: Bbn

In addition, level 1 in the feral gargun monster class gives you:

• 1 racial HD (and thus, your first feat, etc.)
• 2 claws (for 1d4 only, so far)

Right... A quick glance at the other 3 levels reveals that they give you exactly the abilities a feral gargun should have (as far above). The ability score bonuses are cumulative, BTW.

So the gargun works just fine.
Did that help any? If not, please let me know which races seem wrong and I'll take a look.

 

[dvvega]

It was mainly the stat modifiers. In the example you gave, a +4 STR vs a +2 STR.

Feral Gargun's are obviously meant to be combatants and the +4 is much better than the +2.

D

 

[Thanee]

They only start out with +2, by 4th level they have the same +4.

That system basically just gives you the option to play them from 1st to 4th level, instead of starting at 5th (with the 1st class level added to the four other).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Sithobi1]

What happens is sometime during the levels, you get +2 to STR, to compensate for that

 

[dvvega]

In addition it is a LA+2 race correct ...

Now a 1st level Feral Gargun would be 3rd level equivalent correct? That's one level earlier to get everything.

Or am I missing something about LA?

D

 

[IcyCool]

In addition it is a LA+2 race correct ...

Now a 1st level Feral Gargun would be 3rd level equivalent correct? That's one level earlier to get everything.

Or am I missing something about LA?

D

You're missing something. Feral Gargun also has Racial Hit Dice which you aren't accounting for. So, (2 Racial Hit Dice) + (LA +2) + (1 class level) = 5th level character.

 

[Darkness]

It was mainly the stat modifiers. In the example you gave, a +4 STR vs a +2 STR.

That's not correct. I said they get all abilities over the next 3 levels. Specifically, they get a further +2 Str at level 2, bringing up the total racial Str bonus to +4.

You're missing something. Feral Gargun also has Racial Hit Dice which you aren't accounting for. So, (2 Racial Hit Dice) + (LA +2) + (1 class level) = 5th level character.

Yep. Further, LA is not counted when determining feats by chararacter level, bonus ability score points for character levels, and maximum skill ranks.
Racial HD are counted, however.

 

[dvvega]

Okay so to "sum up" using this Feral Gargun:

Your character is LA (2) + Racial HD (2) + Class levels if you start as that creature and it matches with gaining Racial Levels (4) + Class levels.

If you take the race you get to choose no feats (they're already chosen so to speak), if you take racial levels you get to choose feats.

Now in this choosing, you will be able to choose one at 1st level & 2nd level Feral Gargun (new character at 1st level AND 3rd level character at 2nd due to his racial hit die). Is this correct?

D

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Okay so to "sum up" using this Feral Gargun:

Your character is LA (2) + Racial HD (2) + Class levels if you start as that creature and it matches with gaining Racial Levels (4) + Class levels.

If you take the race you get to choose no feats (they're already chosen so to speak), if you take racial levels you get to choose feats.

Now in this choosing, you will be able to choose one at 1st level & 2nd level Feral Gargun (new character at 1st level AND 3rd level character at 2nd due to his racial hit die). Is this correct?

The way that level based feats work are based on hit dice, not level. Well, to be more specific, LEVEL=HD+class levels.

A Gargun who is a level 1 figher is level 3, due to 2 HD. He now has a feat for level 1 and a feat for level 3, both of which, as far as I know, you can choose. (the 1st level one MAY be chosen by the race).

Racial levels are not in fact actual levels. You ONLY gain feats when they tell you that you do. This is because their 2 hit dice is spread out across more levels.

Essentially, the way it is designed is that a 1st level figher Gargun and a player who went through all the racial levels then took a level of figher should be the EXACT same character.