Kerrick
First Post
Over the past weeek or so, I've been working on a new system for making epic spells level-based. I'm not talking about something like the existing Spellcraft-based spell system, but a straight up, level-based progression like 0-9th level spells. It's actually gone pretty well - I thought it would be harder than it was.
Anyway, attached to this post is a file with all the ELH spells converted to the new format. This post will have the rough guidelines I used, along with some additional information.
The first thing I noticed when I looked over the epic spells is that many of them are simply non-epic spells made bigger and better - hellball, memento mori, etc. These were pretty easy to adjudicate - I took metamagic feats and applied rough level adjustments based on those (see additional notes below). The next thing I noticed was that several of them were either not epic, or were actually worse than the non-epic versions with metamagic - dream travel, ruin, greater spell resistance, etc. Most of these got cut (see notes for a complete list). And then there were the spells that are just totally absurd. You know the ones I'm talking about - the spells that are either totally broken, or can't be made at all - create living vault, dire winter, and vengeful gaze of god. I actually managed to make vengeful gaze work (don't ask me how) but create living vault is gone, and dire winter got an attempted fix.
Spells that got cut:
The following spells are still listed for record-keeping purposes (and have notes as to why I cut them), but they aren't otherwise written up: create living vault, dreamscape, epic counterspell, greater spell resistance, greater ruin, and ruin. And there were a couple that are hideously broken, IMO, but still got a write-up - dire winter, kinetic control, and vengeful gaze of god.
Notes for applying metamagic:
Like I said above, if I can, I try to take a base spell that mimics most of the effects of the epic spell and apply metamagic level adjustments - with hellball, for example, I applied
energy admixture and widen. These are only guidelines - you may have to tweak the numbers a bit to get something closer to what the spell level should be, like what I did with pestilence. I applied widen 6 times to that one, but at +2 each, not +3 - if it were +3 each, the spell would be L23 instead of 17, and 17 is closer to the mark, IMO. I'd say if you apply a factor more than twice, it should be lowered by 1 for each. For example, the widen x6 noted above is +12, not +18. Similarly, hellball's admixture x3 is +9, not +16. Why? It's the law of bulk consumption - if you buy things in bulk, you get a discount. The same thing applies here - if you apply the same feat multiple times, you get a level discount.
Notes for applying other factors:
I used several factors when I was doing up the spells, listed below:
Greater Spell: +3. This is pretty much a general rule anyway - greater spells are always 3 levels higher than their normal counterparts.
Mass Spell: +4. Same thing here.
Permanent spell: +6 and it becomes a ritual (this system uses these ritual rules.
Ritual Spells: Large-scale, permanent, or heavy-duty spells (dragon strike, pestilence, etc.) should be rituals. If you want to make a ritual out of a spell that isn't one of the above (say, rain of fire), you can drop the level by 2, though it could easily go as high as 4 - I'm not really sure on that point.
Summoning creatures: +1 level/3 CRs above CR 12. Drop the level by -5 for a very specific creature (an adult red dragon, e.g.), by -3 for a specific group (a behemoth, or an adult dragon, e.g.) or -1 for a certain type (aberration, elemental, etc.)
Undead (and other creature) creation: After deconstructing the create undead spells, I came up with a very simple system for what level you should be to be able to make any undead. It goes like this: If the CR is odd, add 10. If the CR is even, add 9. This is the caster level. For undead, if it's incorporeal, add 2.5*. If it's a template, add 2.5 (so a ghost would be +5).
*Add 2 if the CR is odd and 3 if it's even.
XP Costs: I'd recommend -1 level per 250 XP of the spell's cost.
Material Components
I though it was totally bogus that epic spells didn't require (or even have!) material components, and even more so that expensive components mitigated the cost. What's up with that? Epic spells are beyond the pale - they should have rare and expensive material components. They should be hard to cast. That's why they're epic spells. The components I applied are, for the most part, unusual and sometimes hard to acquire, as they should be, and they add a bit to the flavor of the spells. Casting a pestilence ritual is kinda cool, but casting a pestilence ritual that uses the ashes of 100 plague victims as a material component is just evil, and much more memorable.
The Eyeball Factor
Sometimes you there is no base spell for what you want to do, and none (or very few) of the above guidelines fit). In this case, you just have to eyeball it and apply a rough level, based on the power level of similar spells (much like you do with non-epic spells). You could also make a (hypothetical) base spell, then apply the guidelines to it.
[Edit: Forgot to convert the living lightning spell. I've done that and updated the file.]
Anyway, attached to this post is a file with all the ELH spells converted to the new format. This post will have the rough guidelines I used, along with some additional information.
The first thing I noticed when I looked over the epic spells is that many of them are simply non-epic spells made bigger and better - hellball, memento mori, etc. These were pretty easy to adjudicate - I took metamagic feats and applied rough level adjustments based on those (see additional notes below). The next thing I noticed was that several of them were either not epic, or were actually worse than the non-epic versions with metamagic - dream travel, ruin, greater spell resistance, etc. Most of these got cut (see notes for a complete list). And then there were the spells that are just totally absurd. You know the ones I'm talking about - the spells that are either totally broken, or can't be made at all - create living vault, dire winter, and vengeful gaze of god. I actually managed to make vengeful gaze work (don't ask me how) but create living vault is gone, and dire winter got an attempted fix.
Spells that got cut:
The following spells are still listed for record-keeping purposes (and have notes as to why I cut them), but they aren't otherwise written up: create living vault, dreamscape, epic counterspell, greater spell resistance, greater ruin, and ruin. And there were a couple that are hideously broken, IMO, but still got a write-up - dire winter, kinetic control, and vengeful gaze of god.
Notes for applying metamagic:
Like I said above, if I can, I try to take a base spell that mimics most of the effects of the epic spell and apply metamagic level adjustments - with hellball, for example, I applied
energy admixture and widen. These are only guidelines - you may have to tweak the numbers a bit to get something closer to what the spell level should be, like what I did with pestilence. I applied widen 6 times to that one, but at +2 each, not +3 - if it were +3 each, the spell would be L23 instead of 17, and 17 is closer to the mark, IMO. I'd say if you apply a factor more than twice, it should be lowered by 1 for each. For example, the widen x6 noted above is +12, not +18. Similarly, hellball's admixture x3 is +9, not +16. Why? It's the law of bulk consumption - if you buy things in bulk, you get a discount. The same thing applies here - if you apply the same feat multiple times, you get a level discount.
Notes for applying other factors:
I used several factors when I was doing up the spells, listed below:
Greater Spell: +3. This is pretty much a general rule anyway - greater spells are always 3 levels higher than their normal counterparts.
Mass Spell: +4. Same thing here.
Permanent spell: +6 and it becomes a ritual (this system uses these ritual rules.
Ritual Spells: Large-scale, permanent, or heavy-duty spells (dragon strike, pestilence, etc.) should be rituals. If you want to make a ritual out of a spell that isn't one of the above (say, rain of fire), you can drop the level by 2, though it could easily go as high as 4 - I'm not really sure on that point.
Summoning creatures: +1 level/3 CRs above CR 12. Drop the level by -5 for a very specific creature (an adult red dragon, e.g.), by -3 for a specific group (a behemoth, or an adult dragon, e.g.) or -1 for a certain type (aberration, elemental, etc.)
Undead (and other creature) creation: After deconstructing the create undead spells, I came up with a very simple system for what level you should be to be able to make any undead. It goes like this: If the CR is odd, add 10. If the CR is even, add 9. This is the caster level. For undead, if it's incorporeal, add 2.5*. If it's a template, add 2.5 (so a ghost would be +5).
*Add 2 if the CR is odd and 3 if it's even.
XP Costs: I'd recommend -1 level per 250 XP of the spell's cost.
Material Components
I though it was totally bogus that epic spells didn't require (or even have!) material components, and even more so that expensive components mitigated the cost. What's up with that? Epic spells are beyond the pale - they should have rare and expensive material components. They should be hard to cast. That's why they're epic spells. The components I applied are, for the most part, unusual and sometimes hard to acquire, as they should be, and they add a bit to the flavor of the spells. Casting a pestilence ritual is kinda cool, but casting a pestilence ritual that uses the ashes of 100 plague victims as a material component is just evil, and much more memorable.
The Eyeball Factor
Sometimes you there is no base spell for what you want to do, and none (or very few) of the above guidelines fit). In this case, you just have to eyeball it and apply a rough level, based on the power level of similar spells (much like you do with non-epic spells). You could also make a (hypothetical) base spell, then apply the guidelines to it.
[Edit: Forgot to convert the living lightning spell. I've done that and updated the file.]
Last edited:
