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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 8241666" data-attributes="member: 6915329">Why no, I didn't have anything better to do today.So yeah, I'll put as much of this as I can in the survey, but as you can see, I had a lot to say. Spoilered for size.[SPOILER="General Thoughts"]General ThoughtsBig question: how do these maneuvers stack with the Battlemaster archetype? Or is the Battlemaster defunct in LU?Organization: Put the maneuvers in alphabetical order. If I’m looking for a specific maneuver, I should be able to go to it rather than have to remember its tradition and degree.A Recap. If something like this is going into the book, the list should be like this:Fighter: 1st level: 2 maneuvers; 2nd level: 3 maneuvers; 4th level: 4 maneuvers […] Ranger: 2nd level: 2 maneuvers; 3rd level: 3 maneuvers; 5th level: 4 maneuvers […]Degrees: In “A Recap,” it says that maneuvers are ranked by four degrees. But there are fifth-degree maneuvers.Maneuver DC: Since all creatures can use base maneuvers, is that going to be written into the creature statblocks?Stances: Stances should remain active also until you complete a short rest. Also, can you start one after you begin a long rest?Grab On: I feel like you should include potential damage taken if a creature you’re clinging to decides to smash you into a wall or roll over on you. It could be as simple as, take 1d10 bludgeoning for each size category larger than you it is. It might also be easier for a smaller creature to grab on to a much larger creature (like, Small vs. Large, or Medium vs. Huge).Grapple: The Athletics skill should come into play here.Shove: “You push the target back a number of feet equal to 5 + 5 for every 5 points…” It should be written “you push the target back 5 feet, plus 5 feet for every 5 points by which it failed it save. I feel that if a creature is being shoved back, and the last five feet of the shove is what sends it over a cliff, it should get a save to grab onto something. It’s not fair otherwise.Formatting suggestion: Here’s how I’d format each maneuver:Maneuver Name Degree Tradition (action type, stance/technique, point cost)Meaning, there really should be a break between the degree-tradition section and the action required (it’s very easy to miss that; I did, several times.), and point cost should be on the second line.Stance: Some maneuvers are named stance (e.g., Stand Tall Stance). Since they’re already labeled as stances, I don’t think they need to have that in the actual name.And lastly, can you use these in non-combat situations? Wary Stance, for instance, would be helpful in investigations.[/SPOILER][SPOILER="Adamant Mountain Maneuvers"]Adamant Mountain ManeuversCatch Your Breath: should be minimum 1 point regained. Unless you’re having more things that can drain Con, there’s no point in taking this if you would regain no hp.Heavy Stance. I’m not sure that “you ignore the first 5 feet of difficult terrain” makes a lot of sense. Wouldn’t it be simpler to say that your speed increases by 5 or 10 feet when you move during combat?Warding Wield. Since this is very much like a parry, shouldn’t your AC increase be equal to your proficiency bonus?Battering Strike: “When you hit a creature using a melee weapon that has the Heavy property…” Does this mean when you are wielding a Heavy weapon, or when you hit a creature that is using a Heavy weapon? If it’s the former, rephrase as “when you are wielding a weapon that has the Heavy property and successfully hit a creature…” Also, does this let you knock things that it is holding but not wielding, in the same way Disarm does? Finally, why does this maneuver cost 1 point, but the Rapid Current maneuver Disarming Counter require 2 points? Is it just because Battering Strike requires a heavy weapon?Wild Swing: Maybe it’s just me, but this doesn’t quite feel like it should be 4th degree. Maybe because of the name and description: wild swing sounds like something an amateur would do, not someone who is 11th+ level.Unyielding: This should be phrased as “even when badly [grievously, perhaps?] wounded…”[/SPOILER][SPOILER="Biting Zephyr Maneuvers"]Biting Zephyr ManeuversOK, that little bald dude is creepy-looking. He’s like, “OK, that one first, but you’re next.”You should probably also say whether or not these maneuvers can be used with firearms or other missile weapons with the loading property. At first glance, it’s obvious some can and some can’t, but an official ruling might be nice.Far Shot: This is a very small extra distance for missile weapons, but it practically doubles the distances for thrown weapons. It may need to be rewritten, like it increases the long-range distance by 25% or 50%, rounded to the nearest 5 feet. Or, for missile weapons, it increases the range by 20/50, but for thrown weapons, it increases the range by 10/20. Otherwise, if you like thrown weapons, the Distant Shot maneuver is unnecessary—especially since Far Shot is a stance, and those remain active for a longer time.Point Blank Shot: This is a lot of words to say “you don’t have disad when attacking a creature within 5 feet of you with a ranged weapon, and if a creature within 5 feet of you moves away, you may make an opportunity attack.”Trickshot: You should probably say whether or not the shot damages the object.Heartseeker: This one is weirdly phrased. It should be like this: “If both dice would be a hit, then you score a critical hit. If one of the rolls would be a hit but the other would miss, then it’s treated as a normal hit. If one of the rolls would be a critical hit but the other would be a normal hit or a miss, then you deal an additional damage die.”Throw Anything Stance: Does this include improvised weapons like rocks and bricks (for all the Ignatz Mices out there) or bigger objects like tables and chairs (after all, you can throw anything with this maneuver)? Also, you don’t say how far it can be thrown. Does this mean all weapons with the Thrown property have the same range? (like Throwing Stance from Unending Wheel?) I imagine that if you throw a longsword, it does 1d8 slashing damage, but how much damage do other objects do?Horizon Shot: Does this allow you to use telescopes (because I’m sure that someone will find a way to stick a scope on a crossbow) or scrying to enhance the range of your sight?[/SPOILER][SPOILER="Mirror's Glint Maneuvers"]Mirror’s Glint ManeuversNice whip(?)! I’d love to see the stats on that. Why is she not wearing pants and a bra? Tsk. Bad LU.Leading Throw: 15 feet seems a lot for a 1st-degree maneuver. Maybe 5 or 10 feet.Off-Balancing Strikes: Maybe it’s just me, but this feels slightly weak for a 2nd-degree maneuver. You don’t even inflict the piddling damage that a basic maneuver inflicts, and you don’t have the option of knocking a creature prone. Also, grammer-o: "when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack instead of..." there needs to be a comma after attack.Take Weapon: There are two 3rd-degree maneuvers I’ve seen so far that let you disarm someone and send it flying 10 feet away. This one is the more difficult one of grabbing and potentially using the weapon for yourself. Why is this one 2nd degree? Maybe it should be limited to weapons that aren’t heavy or two-handed.Flowing Form: It should be written as but you have disadvantage on…, not and. Retributive Blow: So is this supposed to be a stance? Does it cost 2 exertion, or 1?Strike the Cracks: Confusing wording here. “You deal one additional damage die when determining the extra damage for a critical hit.” When you crit, all damage dice are doubled. So, if I were using a longsword (1d8 damage), would I inflict 4d8 (1d8 + an extra die, doubled), or 3d8 (1d8 doubled, plus 1d8)? Also, this and several other maneuvers say “if you already have a feature that increases the range of your critical hits…” Does this include having other maneuvers (stances) with this phrasing if those maneuvers aren’t currently active?Blinding Strikes: Considering this is a 5th-degree maneuver, perhaps if the target fails to regain its sight after a certain length of time (a minute, fails three times before it succeeds three times), the blindness is permanent. After all, by this time, lesser restoration is pretty easy to get. However, this maneuver should not affect either blindsight or tremorsense, both of which rely on something other than eyes.Mirror Shard Puzzle: This is one is not good—too much mysticism and magic for a maneuver, which are supposed to be nonmagical. Rephrase as follows: “You take the Dodge action. Until the end of your next turn, whenever an attack misses you, you can either recover 1 point of exertion or deal an additional 1d6 damage on your next melee weapon attack. You may have to rename the maneuver, but it’s better than turning this into some magical ability.[/SPOILER][SPOILER="Mist and Shade Maneuvers"]Mist and Shade ManeuversSleight of Hand Checks: This is referenced several times in this tradition. What benefits does Sleight of Hand have in combat?Agile Feint: Juke? It’s slang with so many possible meanings—dance, steal, outmaneuver—that I don’t know which one you’re going for.Blinding Blow Stance: This is technically slightly more powerful than Blinding Strikes, despite being a degree easier and requiring one fewer points and no attacks. It doesn’t affect blindsight or tremorsense, but it shouldn’t. I have to wonder why this one requires a Wisdom save instead of a Con save.Spinning Parry: Badly phrased: “a Sleight of Hand check when a creature makes a melee attack against you.” It should read “a Sleight of Hand check when a creature makes a melee attack roll against you. If your check is higher than the creature’s attack roll, the attack misses.”[/SPOILER][SPOILER="Rapid Current Maneuvers"]Rapid Current ManeuversSpeed Over Strength: What if a Large or larger creature attacks you with a larger-sized non-Heavy weapon? For instance, a hill giant uses a greatclub. A normal greatclub deals 1d8 damage and isn’t Heavy, but a hill giant’s greatclub deals 3d8, indicating that it’s basically a treetrunk-sized club. Could I use this ability with that club?Parrying Counter: “An expertise die to your AC.” Why not just say that your AC increases by 1d4 points? Or make it like the actual Parry ability, which adds your proficiency bonus to your AC?Rapid Drink: I have a hard time seeing this one get much use, unless Alchemists are converted to LU and get maneuvers.First Blood: What is a critical success on an initiative roll? Wouldn’t it make more sense to say that you treat it as if you had rolled 20?Flowing Steps Stance: OK, I get that this lasts a good long while, but it seems kind of weak for 4th degree. Maybe you have some bonus against opportunity attacks as well, or can Stealth even when moving full speed?Whirlpool Strike: What if one of the attacks misses? Does that end to Strike, or do you simply not get the extra damage?Tidal Parry: I’m not sure that critical hits should still have an opportunity to miss. Crits always hit; they are kind of inviolate in that way.[/SPOILER][SPOILER="Razor's Edge Maneuvers"]Razor’s Edge ManeuverUse the Pain: Interesting, but I don’t know how useful it’s going to be. Maybe change it so that if you suffer a critical hit (whether melee or ranged) you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against any creature within your reach.Drive Back: Maye this should be that for each attack you make, you drive the creature back 5 feet. By the time you get 3rd-degree maneuvers, you’re making at least two attacks per turn, and you could eventually get three.Mind Over Body: This feels like it should only come into effect when you’re not at full hp. Also, it’s weak for a 3rd-degree maneuver. It should be a number equal to your proficiency bonus.Sharpened Awareness: “If the attack still hits you” should be the start of a new paragraph, and should read “if the initial attack still hits you.”Focused Edge: Seems weak. It should be +1d10 per point spent, almost nobody who is capable of getting a 5th-degree maneuver (or even 3rd or 4th degree) is going to be casting a lot of concentration spells in battle, and there’s only one other maneuver I could find that makes you concentrate. Either add concentration as a requirement to more maneuvers, reduce this one’s degree, or get rid of the concentration requirement and simply have it cost more actions.Heightened Concentration: Utterly useless. Get this gone.[/SPOILER][SPOILER="Sanguine Knot Maneuvers"]Sanguine Knot ManeuversDoubleteam: How many melee weapon attacks have a reach of 20 feet? Did you introduce super-long pikes? There are some creatures that have really long attacks, but I don’t know that this is going to be useful against them.Dual Grapple: What benefits does this give that outweighs the penalties of you or your ally being grappled?Hurl Ally: Lineages that have the Powerful Build/Heavy Lifter trait (or a similar trait, for NPC creatures) should be able to toss a creature of their size category as well as smaller ones. In LU, this would only be orcs at the moment, but you know people are going to be converting centaurs, goliaths, and firbolgs.Look At Me!: The flavor text should be rewritten. You’re not making foes hesitate; you’re distracting them.Brave Shield: All saving throws? I can see Str, Con, and Dex saves, but Int, Wis, and Cha?United We Stand: Is the extra damage per attack, or just added to the total damage it takes?[/SPOILER][SPOILER="Spirited Steed Maneuvers"]Spirited Steed ManeuversArt comment: Puppy!Other comment: there should be a maneuver or two for people with flying mounts.Mounted Charge: I feel like the first attack your mount makes should also gain advantage.Trample: If you’re riding something with claws, you should have the option of making it slashing damage instead. It’s probably not a big deal, but verisimilitude is key.Prodigious Leap: Again, no magical effects in a nonmagical maneuver. Just double or even triple its jump distances; don’t let it actually fly.Spirited Whistle: Giving it fatigue seems harsh. It should simply move at full speed, maybe even taking the Dash action, until it reaches you. If this takes several rounds, that’s OK. Unless taking the Dash action causes fatigue for PCs, the mount shouldn’t suffer that. Especially considering many of them are built for this kind of movement.[/SPOILER][SPOILER="Tempered Iron Maneuvers"]Tempered Iron ManeuversStriding Swings: I guess this provokes opportunity attacks?Zealous Stance: Why would you not “decide” to get expertise dice?Dispelling Assault: I can see this being used against allies who have a spell on them and the casters didn’t prepare dispel magic. You should specify whether this works against curses, because if so, it’s hella powerful. “I’ll have to beat ya up for a bit until it gets rid of that nasty geas. Don’t worry, the cleric’ll heal ya afterwards!” Actually, you should also specify if this works for spell-like abilities. If someone gets charmed by a nymph or a ‘cubus, can you use this to fix them?Dispelling Charge: I’m not sure how this is better than Break Spell, other than that you get to move. The chances of a crit are pretty low, even if you have other abilities that give you a wider crit range, and a crit would likely make the concentration save DC so high that failure is likely anyway.Holy Pyre Stance: How long does the change in fire resistance last? Until you lose the stance, or for a different length of time?Spell Shattering Strike: Possible effects include “the creature is confused” and “the creature is rattled for the next minute.” Are these new conditions? (Yay! I’ve been hoping for a Confused condition) or are they rules exceptions for this maneuver and you’ll expand upon them in the final document?Branding Steel: Again, this feels too magical for a non-magical maneuver.[/SPOILER][SPOILER="Tooth and Claw Maneuvers"]Tooth and Claw ManeuversSome of these maneuvers refer to melee weapon attacks, even though they look like they should be able to be used with natural weapons and unarmed strike. Can you use a natural weapon and unarmed attack with them as well, or can you only use weapons? I think all the maneuvers in this tradition should be allowed for natural weapons and unarmed attacks.Ride Enemy: Rephrase: “…you can use your reaction to make a Grab On basic maneuver, and you make your Strength or Dexterity saves with advantage.”Mercurial Striking Stance: You may want to explain this a bit: if you roll a 1 or 2 for damage, do you reroll until it’s 3 or higher, or do you just make it a 3?Prey On The Weak: You’re including the bloodied condition?Furious Barrage: You should probably expand this to say “You keep attacking until you miss, then you can’t attack again until your next turn” or something like that.Wounded Animal Gambit: Another one that should be rewritten: “…you can immediately stand up and use a Tooth and Claw maneuver you know against it. Any melee attacks made as part of this maneuver are made with advantage. This maneuver costs points from your exertion pool, but no action is required to activated it.” Also, can you just attack, or do you have to use a maneuver?[/SPOILER][SPOILER="Unending Wheel Maneuvers"]Unending Wheel ManeuversSo, this is the anime tradition, huh?Throwing Stance: Can you throw any weapon with this? Like, can I hurl a greatsword?Wounding Strike: Does gaining temp hp end the effect early?Deflect Strike: Typo: number of d6s.Any Weapon Stance: This shouldn’t be a maneuver. Toss it. Most martials already have access to all weapons, and at 4th degree, I’d guess that classes with limited weapon proficiencies (adepts, rogues) aren’t going to be able to get it. And while “rare weapons” might be something really interesting, it’s probably not worth it to waste a 4th-degree maneuver to get them.Explosive Step: This is oddly worded. You have to use all your movement… do you then get an additional five feet of movement? Explosive Step feels more like a Tooth and Claw maneuver.Wind Strike: Too magical for a nonmagical maneuver.Heart of the Sword: I’m not sure I get the point of this. Lots of other maneuvers, including other Unending Wheel maneuvers, grant increased crit ranges. And this one does nothing else.[/SPOILER]</blockquote>

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