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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #16: Combat Maneuvers
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<blockquote data-quote="Horwath" data-source="post: 8241944" data-attributes="member: 6801299"><p>There is really lot of things in this package and Survey page could be formatted better, so maybe just one maneuvers that stick out IMHO.</p><p></p><p><strong>Adamant Mountain:</strong></p><p></p><p>Heavy stance:</p><p>expertise in Str(athletics) is nice.</p><p>I would change partly ignoring difficult terrain with partly ignoring forced movement.</p><p>Like reduce forced movement you suffer by 5 or 10ft. Depends on balance.</p><p></p><p>Unbreakable:</p><p>Seems kind of expensive. 2 pts, maybe even 1 point is enough. You don't go down that often, and when you do, this has usage only in 45% of death saving throws. And it costs a "slot" for having it.</p><p></p><p>Mighty melee:</p><p>This also feels expensive:</p><p>5th level maneuver, 3 pts, one less attack for extra 1d8 damage?</p><p>Even if you are a 20th level fighter with 4 attacks and Polearm mastery: it's 4d10+1d4+25 vs 3d10+4d8+1d4+20, 49,5 vs. 56 damage.</p><p>6,5 damage for 3pt cost and 5th level maneuver. If you have a +3 weapon it's only 3,5 damage more. Not to mention that it is better to have 5 instead of 4 attacks. If you add +10 damage from Heavy armor mastery, this maneuver is pure DPR loss<strong>.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Biting Zephyr:</strong></p><p></p><p>Double shot:</p><p>I feel that this would be better as Action(technique) than a bonus action tax beforehand.</p><p>Otherwise, it's good.</p><p></p><p>Farshot stance;</p><p>more or less OK,</p><p>30/60 would be better, but I will address this again real soon,</p><p></p><p>Ricochet:</p><p>Same as Double shot, should be technique,</p><p></p><p>Distant shot: oh god, why...?</p><p>this is the worst:</p><p>4th level maneuver, cost 2 pts, cost bonus action, for what? ignoring disadvantage on long range for 1 round?</p><p></p><p>my suggestion: delete distant shot, rework farshot stance that it gives no disadvantage at long range. keep long range the same, no increase from the stance.</p><p></p><p>Horizon shot;</p><p>delete or put some reasonable distance limit on range. Reduce the cost to 2 points and only normal attack cost.</p><p>I.E: you can attack a target at 3× your weapon's long range without penalties for range or c<strong>over.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Mirror's Glint:</strong></p><p></p><p>Flowing form:</p><p>Disadvantage on perception is not needed and will probably be forgotten most of the time...</p><p></p><p>Heightened reflexes:</p><p>As something that boosts your reflexes, it seems weird that you have to prepare for it in advance...</p><p>Just make it work as: when you could take a reaction and you do not have a reaction left, spend a point to make a reaction. Limit 1(or maybe 2) extra reactions per round.</p><p></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Mist and Shade:</strong></p><p></p><p>Mugging hit:</p><p>Should be a reaction after you make a hit.</p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Rapid Current:</strong></p><p></p><p>Charge:</p><p>No need to punish a class that has Dash as a bonus action...</p><p></p><p>Rapid drunk:</p><p>should be a 1st level maneuver,</p><p></p><p>First blood;</p><p>maybe too expensive at 3 pts,</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Razor's Edge:</strong></p><p></p><p>Dangerous strikes + Perfect edge stance;</p><p>no need to limit crit on 17-20. Do hate Champion Fighters that much?</p><p></p><p>Perceptive stance;</p><p>No need to limit it just to combat,</p><p></p><p>Death blow:</p><p>reduce attack cost to 2, just double the damage rolled if attack roll would also be a crit.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Sanguine Know:</strong></p><p></p><p>Dual grapple:</p><p>this should be default grapple,</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Spirited Steed:</strong></p><p></p><p>Mounted charge:</p><p>again, classes with Dash as bonus action should not be punished by this maneuver.</p><p>Also, it's very circumstantial, so 2 pts might be too much.</p><p></p><p>Trample:</p><p>it should be your mounts FULL speed.</p><p>change cost to 1 pt per target, </p><p>add targets size of your mount can be targeted by they make saving throw with advantage. Targets 2 or more sizes smaller than your mount, make saving throw with disadvantage.</p><p></p><p>Sacrifice mount:</p><p>should be lower level and cost less,</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Tempered Iron:</strong></p><p></p><p>Striding swings:</p><p>need clearer wording of ability.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Tooth and Claw:</strong></p><p></p><p>Springing stance:</p><p>just double the default values.</p><p></p><p>Expert tumble:</p><p>Just make it 15 or 20 feet. No need to punish fast characters for being fast.</p><p>And it could make difficult terrain be a factor.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Unending wheel:</strong></p><p></p><p>Throwing stance:</p><p>it should be with all weapons, maybe exclude Heavy weapons.</p><p></p><p>Preternatural Strikes:</p><p>this could be a stance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Horwath, post: 8241944, member: 6801299"] There is really lot of things in this package and Survey page could be formatted better, so maybe just one maneuvers that stick out IMHO. [B]Adamant Mountain:[/B] Heavy stance: expertise in Str(athletics) is nice. I would change partly ignoring difficult terrain with partly ignoring forced movement. Like reduce forced movement you suffer by 5 or 10ft. Depends on balance. Unbreakable: Seems kind of expensive. 2 pts, maybe even 1 point is enough. You don't go down that often, and when you do, this has usage only in 45% of death saving throws. And it costs a "slot" for having it. Mighty melee: This also feels expensive: 5th level maneuver, 3 pts, one less attack for extra 1d8 damage? Even if you are a 20th level fighter with 4 attacks and Polearm mastery: it's 4d10+1d4+25 vs 3d10+4d8+1d4+20, 49,5 vs. 56 damage. 6,5 damage for 3pt cost and 5th level maneuver. If you have a +3 weapon it's only 3,5 damage more. Not to mention that it is better to have 5 instead of 4 attacks. If you add +10 damage from Heavy armor mastery, this maneuver is pure DPR loss[B]. Biting Zephyr:[/B] Double shot: I feel that this would be better as Action(technique) than a bonus action tax beforehand. Otherwise, it's good. Farshot stance; more or less OK, 30/60 would be better, but I will address this again real soon, Ricochet: Same as Double shot, should be technique, Distant shot: oh god, why...? this is the worst: 4th level maneuver, cost 2 pts, cost bonus action, for what? ignoring disadvantage on long range for 1 round? my suggestion: delete distant shot, rework farshot stance that it gives no disadvantage at long range. keep long range the same, no increase from the stance. Horizon shot; delete or put some reasonable distance limit on range. Reduce the cost to 2 points and only normal attack cost. I.E: you can attack a target at 3× your weapon's long range without penalties for range or c[B]over. Mirror's Glint:[/B] Flowing form: Disadvantage on perception is not needed and will probably be forgotten most of the time... Heightened reflexes: As something that boosts your reflexes, it seems weird that you have to prepare for it in advance... Just make it work as: when you could take a reaction and you do not have a reaction left, spend a point to make a reaction. Limit 1(or maybe 2) extra reactions per round. [B] Mist and Shade:[/B] Mugging hit: Should be a reaction after you make a hit. [B] Rapid Current:[/B] Charge: No need to punish a class that has Dash as a bonus action... Rapid drunk: should be a 1st level maneuver, First blood; maybe too expensive at 3 pts, [B]Razor's Edge:[/B] Dangerous strikes + Perfect edge stance; no need to limit crit on 17-20. Do hate Champion Fighters that much? Perceptive stance; No need to limit it just to combat, Death blow: reduce attack cost to 2, just double the damage rolled if attack roll would also be a crit. [B]Sanguine Know:[/B] Dual grapple: this should be default grapple, [B]Spirited Steed:[/B] Mounted charge: again, classes with Dash as bonus action should not be punished by this maneuver. Also, it's very circumstantial, so 2 pts might be too much. Trample: it should be your mounts FULL speed. change cost to 1 pt per target, add targets size of your mount can be targeted by they make saving throw with advantage. Targets 2 or more sizes smaller than your mount, make saving throw with disadvantage. Sacrifice mount: should be lower level and cost less, [B]Tempered Iron:[/B] Striding swings: need clearer wording of ability. [B]Tooth and Claw:[/B] Springing stance: just double the default values. Expert tumble: Just make it 15 or 20 feet. No need to punish fast characters for being fast. And it could make difficult terrain be a factor. [B]Unending wheel:[/B] Throwing stance: it should be with all weapons, maybe exclude Heavy weapons. Preternatural Strikes: this could be a stance. [/QUOTE]
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