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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #16: Combat Maneuvers
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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 8242293" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>So to do a little character comparison, and see how restrictive how limited schools is, I decided to remake Daiygo as an Adept. Lets see how he does in comparison to my fighter version.</p><p></p><p><strong>OG Daiygo</strong></p><p></p><p>[Spoiler]</p><p><strong>Daiygo the Song Sword</strong></p><p>Raised in a temple with a single purpose, to serve his diety the Daimyo all his days. Daiygo says little with words, only his blade. He has no will of his own, but is a meer extension of his master's will. Daiygo is dangerous and mysterious, little is known about him, because those that try often meet a fatal end.</p><p></p><p><strong>Human</strong>: Die-Hard Survivor (+4 to death saves), Determined (Paragon - +5 to attack, check, or save when at half health).</p><p>+1 skill</p><p><strong>Culture</strong>: Religious Devotee (Adv vs Fear and Charm, Religion, 2 musical instruments)</p><p><strong>Background</strong>: Solider (+1 str, +1 dex, Athletics, Intimidation, Shogi Set)</p><p>+4 dex</p><p><strong>Fighter (10th level)</strong></p><p>Fighting Style (TWF), Watchful Eye (+5 to Passive Perception to notice hidden threats), Evaluate Technique, Indomitable 1/day, Mysterious Reputation</p><p><strong>Knacks: </strong>Burst of Strength, Extreme Leap, Nightwatch</p><p></p><p>HP: 74</p><p>AC: 17 (Studded Leather)</p><p>Skills: Athletics, Acrobatics, Intimidation, Perception, Insight, Religion, Singing, the Lute, Shogi</p><p>Str: 14</p><p>Dex: 20</p><p>Con: 12</p><p>Int: 10</p><p>Wis: 12</p><p>Cha: 8</p><p></p><p>Attack: Katana (flavored Rapier) +9x2, 1d8 + 5 damage</p><p>Off Hand Attack: Wakizashi (flavored short sword) +9, 1d6 + 5</p><p></p><p><strong>Maneuvers</strong></p><p>Exertion: 10</p><p>DC: 17</p><p>Schools: All (this part is confusing, so I am assuming the Fighter document trumps the generic list).</p><p>Exertion cost in the ()</p><p></p><p>1st Tier (3)</p><p>Leading Throw (Mirror's Glint - 1): Reaction - Throw opponent who missed you.</p><p>Imposing Glare (T Iron - 1): Bonus Action, Charisma save or frightened until the end of your next turn.</p><p>Perplexing Flurry (Mist/Shade - 1): Technique - Enemy has disadvantage on attacks against you, if you use all attacks against them.</p><p></p><p>2nd Tier (2)</p><p>Deflect Strike (U Wheel - 1): Reaction - Reduce damage by 4d6.</p><p>Practiced Roll (R Edge - 1): Bonus Action, move 20 feet without OAs.</p><p></p><p>3rd Tier (2)</p><p>Instinctive Counterattack (Razor's Edge - 2): Reaction, gain an extra attack</p><p>Rake (Tooth and Claw - 1): Technique: +1d8 damage on all hits after the first.</p><p>[/Spoiler]</p><p></p><p><strong>Daiygo V2</strong></p><p><strong>Human</strong>: Die-Hard Survivor (+4 to death saves), Determined (Paragon - +5 to attack, check, or save when at half health).</p><p>+1 skill</p><p><strong>Culture</strong>: Religious Devotee (Adv vs Fear and Charm, Religion, 2 musical instruments)</p><p><strong>Background</strong>: Solider (+1 str, +1 con, Athletics, Intimidation, Shogi Set)</p><p>+4 strength</p><p><strong>Adept (10th level) - </strong>Adroit Defense (Strength), Battlefield Ettiquette, Empty Mind</p><p>Focus Features: Weapon Skill (Longsword - aka "Katana"), Deflect Missiles, Stunning Blow (DC 13), Maneuver Rush, Stillness of Mind, Slow Fall, Purity of Body</p><p></p><p><strong>Knacks: </strong>Adept Speed x3, Gale Walk, Hurricane Walk</p><p></p><p>HP: 63</p><p>Speed: 60</p><p>AC: 17 (Studded Leather)</p><p>Skills: Athletics, Acrobatics, Intimidation, Perception, Insight, Religion, Singing, the Lute, Shogi</p><p>Str: 20</p><p>Dex: 12</p><p>Con: 14</p><p>Int: 10</p><p>Wis: 12</p><p>Cha: 8</p><p></p><p>Attack: Katana (flavored longsword) +9x2, 1d10 + 5 damage (3 attacks with bonus action).</p><p></p><p><strong>Maneuvers</strong></p><p>Exertion: 12</p><p>DC: 18</p><p>Schools: Mirror’s Glint, Rapid Current, Razor’s Edge, Unending Wheel</p><p>Exertion cost in the ()</p><p></p><p>1st Tier (2)</p><p>Knockdown Assault (M Glint - 1): Technique - Hits that do 8 or more damage, Dex save or prone.</p><p>Wary Stance (M Glint - 1): Stance - Gain expertise die on Insight, +3 passive insight</p><p></p><p>2nd Tier (2)</p><p>Deflect Strike (U Wheel - 2): Reaction - Reduce weapon attack by 4d6</p><p></p><p>3rd Tier (1)</p><p>Whirlwind Strike (R Current - 2): Technique (2 attack) - Make 4 attacks against different opponents within reach.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>The Plan</strong></p><p>So this Daiygo is stronger physically than the last, with a high strength and stronger direct attacks. He maintains the same AC but does have notable less HP. His go to move is using Knockdown Assault in combo with Flurry of blows (2 exertion total) to get 4 attacks, each with a chance to prone.</p><p></p><p>This guy's "super move" is using the Maneuver Rush ability to use Whirlwind Strike twice in one round + flurry of blows. So by spending 5 exertion (damn that's a lot!), he could attack 4 people near him twice, and then throw on two more attacks wherever they are needed.</p><p></p><p>While he does have stunning blow, with a low DC (13), he is only likely going to use that against spellcaster or people with notably low Con saves.</p><p></p><p>Mobility wise this guy boosts a 60 speed, and can dash as a bonus action. Oh and of course, this guy can fly when he needs to, because....yeah!</p><p></p><p><strong>Creation Notes</strong></p><p>So the Adept offered a different challenge compared to the fighter. I had to balance my focus features with my maneuvers to cover all my bases. In general I took focus features that used limited exertion, to allow for more on my maneuvers, and to remove condition effects.</p><p></p><p>One thing that is notable, is that the character both has more Exertion, but also has a strong base line attack even without exertion. So while I have the ability to blow through exertion quickly, I would argue this version of Daiygo is more self sufficient if he has 0 exertion.</p><p></p><p>Maneuver choosing was tough, I still haven't actually chosen another Tier 2 maneuver, because I honestly don't know what to pick. The issue I was having is that my bonus action is already spoken for a lot more with the Adept, and I already have a lot of condition removal so don't need more of that. Some of my other choices for mobility conflicted with Long step, and I think Deflect Weapon is so good that another reaction has to be pretty Hoss, or not conflict with getting hit by a weapon.</p><p></p><p>The +1 to maneuver DC is interesting, as it makes those more tempting for the adept. For this build I couldn't get high wisdom so mainly I used DCs through my maneuvers instead of focus features.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 8242293, member: 5889"] So to do a little character comparison, and see how restrictive how limited schools is, I decided to remake Daiygo as an Adept. Lets see how he does in comparison to my fighter version. [B]OG Daiygo[/B] [Spoiler] [B]Daiygo the Song Sword[/B] Raised in a temple with a single purpose, to serve his diety the Daimyo all his days. Daiygo says little with words, only his blade. He has no will of his own, but is a meer extension of his master's will. Daiygo is dangerous and mysterious, little is known about him, because those that try often meet a fatal end. [B]Human[/B]: Die-Hard Survivor (+4 to death saves), Determined (Paragon - +5 to attack, check, or save when at half health). +1 skill [B]Culture[/B]: Religious Devotee (Adv vs Fear and Charm, Religion, 2 musical instruments) [B]Background[/B]: Solider (+1 str, +1 dex, Athletics, Intimidation, Shogi Set) +4 dex [B]Fighter (10th level)[/B] Fighting Style (TWF), Watchful Eye (+5 to Passive Perception to notice hidden threats), Evaluate Technique, Indomitable 1/day, Mysterious Reputation [B]Knacks: [/B]Burst of Strength, Extreme Leap, Nightwatch HP: 74 AC: 17 (Studded Leather) Skills: Athletics, Acrobatics, Intimidation, Perception, Insight, Religion, Singing, the Lute, Shogi Str: 14 Dex: 20 Con: 12 Int: 10 Wis: 12 Cha: 8 Attack: Katana (flavored Rapier) +9x2, 1d8 + 5 damage Off Hand Attack: Wakizashi (flavored short sword) +9, 1d6 + 5 [B]Maneuvers[/B] Exertion: 10 DC: 17 Schools: All (this part is confusing, so I am assuming the Fighter document trumps the generic list). Exertion cost in the () 1st Tier (3) Leading Throw (Mirror's Glint - 1): Reaction - Throw opponent who missed you. Imposing Glare (T Iron - 1): Bonus Action, Charisma save or frightened until the end of your next turn. Perplexing Flurry (Mist/Shade - 1): Technique - Enemy has disadvantage on attacks against you, if you use all attacks against them. 2nd Tier (2) Deflect Strike (U Wheel - 1): Reaction - Reduce damage by 4d6. Practiced Roll (R Edge - 1): Bonus Action, move 20 feet without OAs. 3rd Tier (2) Instinctive Counterattack (Razor's Edge - 2): Reaction, gain an extra attack Rake (Tooth and Claw - 1): Technique: +1d8 damage on all hits after the first. [/Spoiler] [B]Daiygo V2 Human[/B]: Die-Hard Survivor (+4 to death saves), Determined (Paragon - +5 to attack, check, or save when at half health). +1 skill [B]Culture[/B]: Religious Devotee (Adv vs Fear and Charm, Religion, 2 musical instruments) [B]Background[/B]: Solider (+1 str, +1 con, Athletics, Intimidation, Shogi Set) +4 strength [B]Adept (10th level) - [/B]Adroit Defense (Strength), Battlefield Ettiquette, Empty Mind Focus Features: Weapon Skill (Longsword - aka "Katana"), Deflect Missiles, Stunning Blow (DC 13), Maneuver Rush, Stillness of Mind, Slow Fall, Purity of Body [B]Knacks: [/B]Adept Speed x3, Gale Walk, Hurricane Walk HP: 63 Speed: 60 AC: 17 (Studded Leather) Skills: Athletics, Acrobatics, Intimidation, Perception, Insight, Religion, Singing, the Lute, Shogi Str: 20 Dex: 12 Con: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 12 Cha: 8 Attack: Katana (flavored longsword) +9x2, 1d10 + 5 damage (3 attacks with bonus action). [B]Maneuvers[/B] Exertion: 12 DC: 18 Schools: Mirror’s Glint, Rapid Current, Razor’s Edge, Unending Wheel Exertion cost in the () 1st Tier (2) Knockdown Assault (M Glint - 1): Technique - Hits that do 8 or more damage, Dex save or prone. Wary Stance (M Glint - 1): Stance - Gain expertise die on Insight, +3 passive insight 2nd Tier (2) Deflect Strike (U Wheel - 2): Reaction - Reduce weapon attack by 4d6 3rd Tier (1) Whirlwind Strike (R Current - 2): Technique (2 attack) - Make 4 attacks against different opponents within reach. [B]The Plan[/B] So this Daiygo is stronger physically than the last, with a high strength and stronger direct attacks. He maintains the same AC but does have notable less HP. His go to move is using Knockdown Assault in combo with Flurry of blows (2 exertion total) to get 4 attacks, each with a chance to prone. This guy's "super move" is using the Maneuver Rush ability to use Whirlwind Strike twice in one round + flurry of blows. So by spending 5 exertion (damn that's a lot!), he could attack 4 people near him twice, and then throw on two more attacks wherever they are needed. While he does have stunning blow, with a low DC (13), he is only likely going to use that against spellcaster or people with notably low Con saves. Mobility wise this guy boosts a 60 speed, and can dash as a bonus action. Oh and of course, this guy can fly when he needs to, because....yeah! [B]Creation Notes[/B] So the Adept offered a different challenge compared to the fighter. I had to balance my focus features with my maneuvers to cover all my bases. In general I took focus features that used limited exertion, to allow for more on my maneuvers, and to remove condition effects. One thing that is notable, is that the character both has more Exertion, but also has a strong base line attack even without exertion. So while I have the ability to blow through exertion quickly, I would argue this version of Daiygo is more self sufficient if he has 0 exertion. Maneuver choosing was tough, I still haven't actually chosen another Tier 2 maneuver, because I honestly don't know what to pick. The issue I was having is that my bonus action is already spoken for a lot more with the Adept, and I already have a lot of condition removal so don't need more of that. Some of my other choices for mobility conflicted with Long step, and I think Deflect Weapon is so good that another reaction has to be pretty Hoss, or not conflict with getting hit by a weapon. The +1 to maneuver DC is interesting, as it makes those more tempting for the adept. For this build I couldn't get high wisdom so mainly I used DCs through my maneuvers instead of focus features. [/QUOTE]
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