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<blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 8282913" data-attributes="member: 6932123"><p>I can certainly agree there, but this isn't just a "how big is your bedroom?" list, it's a <em>stronghold</em> list. How much space you need to swing your sword around is certainly part of it. Space for the mechanics necessary to secure the premises. Space for whatever followers come attached to it to do their thing. Etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This gets into the issue I wrote about, regarding whether the area provided was only the building itself, or included the surrounding areas. If people are sleeping outside, that sort of implicitly increases the effective area that the 'stronghold' encompasses (though it also brings into question whether it qualifies as a 'stronghold' in the first place).</p><p></p><p></p><p>This gets a bit into semantics, and separating a "castle" from a "keep", and such. For example, a keep with a single walled bailey vs no walls vs a double bailey, all of which could theoretically be called castles (ie: a defensible building made of stone), but could also be viewed as different types of constructions.</p><p></p><p>It's like anything from a hut to a mansion could be called a "house", but we use different words to describe different categories of houses to more easily communicate specific concepts.</p><p></p><p>So a 'castle' in the 40k sq foot range could be a very small castle, or could be a walled keep, whereas something twice that size would start to be seen as a proper castle, and three times that size being a 'standard' sized castle, more easily containing all the features you might expect to find in a castle (eg: stables, forge, multiple defensive layers, courtyards, ballrooms, etc).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I tried to be a bit generous, but most of the sizes are actually a fair bit smaller than the original document, while still aligning with typical expectations of various terms. The problem was that the scaling rate made the smallest tier <em>too</em> small, which is what got me thinking about the entire scale in the first place.</p><p></p><p>Honestly, there's not too much wrong with the original scale. Mansions starting at 10,000 sq ft is not that bad, though going up to 100,000 sq ft is a bit questionable. Castles starting at 100,000 sq ft seems entirely reasonable.</p><p></p><p>And of course there's the issue of the range of sizes. Going "up to" a given size doesn't mean they all have to be that size. Also remember that 25 sq ft is a single 5' x 5' "square" on a battlemap. 100 sq ft is 4 of those squares. Now imagine having a space <em>smaller</em> than that for your workshop. Even your example log cabin was over twice that size.</p><p></p><p>What can you put in a workshop of that size? Perhaps some woodworking stuff (I have a friend who has a shed out back that's probably on the 10'x10' scale that has some tools for handicraft stuff). Certainly not anything relating to a forge. Jewelrycrafting, perhaps. A small herbalist's or alchemist's hut. I don't think I'd trust that amount of space for brewing. Pottery, cobbling, etc. I could see 100 sq ft as the <em>bare minimum</em> to be functional. At the same time, working on something of that scale, without encroaching on "shop" territory, should allow for more space for something you're buying a feat for.</p><p></p><p>People can certainly make do with ridiculously little space, but is that a useful consideration with respect to finding ways to spend money in game, on a feature called "stronghold"?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kinematics, post: 8282913, member: 6932123"] I can certainly agree there, but this isn't just a "how big is your bedroom?" list, it's a [I]stronghold[/I] list. How much space you need to swing your sword around is certainly part of it. Space for the mechanics necessary to secure the premises. Space for whatever followers come attached to it to do their thing. Etc. This gets into the issue I wrote about, regarding whether the area provided was only the building itself, or included the surrounding areas. If people are sleeping outside, that sort of implicitly increases the effective area that the 'stronghold' encompasses (though it also brings into question whether it qualifies as a 'stronghold' in the first place). This gets a bit into semantics, and separating a "castle" from a "keep", and such. For example, a keep with a single walled bailey vs no walls vs a double bailey, all of which could theoretically be called castles (ie: a defensible building made of stone), but could also be viewed as different types of constructions. It's like anything from a hut to a mansion could be called a "house", but we use different words to describe different categories of houses to more easily communicate specific concepts. So a 'castle' in the 40k sq foot range could be a very small castle, or could be a walled keep, whereas something twice that size would start to be seen as a proper castle, and three times that size being a 'standard' sized castle, more easily containing all the features you might expect to find in a castle (eg: stables, forge, multiple defensive layers, courtyards, ballrooms, etc). I tried to be a bit generous, but most of the sizes are actually a fair bit smaller than the original document, while still aligning with typical expectations of various terms. The problem was that the scaling rate made the smallest tier [I]too[/I] small, which is what got me thinking about the entire scale in the first place. Honestly, there's not too much wrong with the original scale. Mansions starting at 10,000 sq ft is not that bad, though going up to 100,000 sq ft is a bit questionable. Castles starting at 100,000 sq ft seems entirely reasonable. And of course there's the issue of the range of sizes. Going "up to" a given size doesn't mean they all have to be that size. Also remember that 25 sq ft is a single 5' x 5' "square" on a battlemap. 100 sq ft is 4 of those squares. Now imagine having a space [I]smaller[/I] than that for your workshop. Even your example log cabin was over twice that size. What can you put in a workshop of that size? Perhaps some woodworking stuff (I have a friend who has a shed out back that's probably on the 10'x10' scale that has some tools for handicraft stuff). Certainly not anything relating to a forge. Jewelrycrafting, perhaps. A small herbalist's or alchemist's hut. I don't think I'd trust that amount of space for brewing. Pottery, cobbling, etc. I could see 100 sq ft as the [I]bare minimum[/I] to be functional. At the same time, working on something of that scale, without encroaching on "shop" territory, should allow for more space for something you're buying a feat for. People can certainly make do with ridiculously little space, but is that a useful consideration with respect to finding ways to spend money in game, on a feature called "stronghold"? [/QUOTE]
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