Levelling monsters instead of advancing HD

[Thurbane]

Hi all,

What does RAW have to say about adding character levels to a monsters that normally advances by HD? For instance, if I wanted to build a Gargoyle Fighter - the Gargoyle entry says they advance by HD (and size).

If not allowed by RAW, can anyone see any problems houseruling this?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Anything with Int 3 or better can take levels in a character class.

Advancement
The monster entry usually describes only the most commonly encountered version of a creature. The advancement line shows how tough a creature can get, in terms of extra Hit Dice. (This is not an absolute limit, but exceptions are extremely rare.) Often, intelligent creatures advance by gaining a level in a character class instead of just gaining a new Hit Die.

 

[Thurbane]

Great, thanks for that.

Should be no problems with my Gargoyle Fighter then.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

It is not so much not allowed, as non-standard and presumably rare for a Gargoyle.

Adding Fighter or other PC class levels is a good way to add some tricksiness to any Int 3+ monster without boosting HPs significantly. (Your other option would be to add ~3 HD to gain a Feat.)

The open question is whether 1 level of Fighter is really and truly representative of +1 CR. If the feat is carefully chosen, maybe yes.

 

[clark411]

Well, the Gargoyle's favored class IS fighter (see "Gargoyles as characters"), so there's certainly no problem. However, it's wierd that this is the case, given it's propensity for hiding and its Freeze ability. I'm surprised it's not a Rogue focused creature. That said, dropping 2 levels of Rogue onto Gargoyles for a +1 CR is certainly an interesting prospect.

 

[frankthedm]

[IMaGer]http://wizards.com/dnd/images/dungeonscape_gallery/102766.jpg[/IMaGer]______________________________
Originally posted by Ridley's Cohort
The open question is whether 1 level of Fighter is really and truly representative of +1 CR. If the feat is carefully chosen, maybe yes.
______________________________

You select his feats as you build him. only Racial Bonus feats cannot be changed. Toughness has to go, maybe replace that one with flyby attack, multiattack can be swapped for power attack, first level fighter can be weapon focus, improved bull rush or improved toughness.

Elite scores and 900 gp worth of gear make it a guarantee he earns that first CR point. He and his flock, if any, bombarding PCs with alchemical items should be plenty. Splash in some two handed weapons{all gargoyles can wield simple weapons], light armor [Leather is ACP-0], and I think things will go well.

______________________________
Originally posted by clark411
That said, dropping 2 levels of Rogue onto Gargoyles for a +1 CR is certainly an interesting prospect.
______________________________

with their skill at hiding and their multiple attacks, I would say rogue is an associated class for them. One for one CR point.

 

[frankthedm]

...

 

[Thurbane]

I was thinking something like this:

Gargoyle Fighter 6 (HD 4d8 + 6d10) 

HP: 94 

STR      20         +5
DEX      18         +4
CON     22         +6
INT       6          -2
WIS      12         +1
CHA     4          -3

Attacks: 2 claws +16 melee (1d6+7, 19-20/x2) and
bite +13 melee (1d6+2) and gore +13 melee (1d6+2)

Feats:
1          Multiattack
F1        WF: Claws
F2        Power Attack
3          Flyby Attack
F4        WS: Claws
6          INA: Claws
F6        Power Critical (Claws)
9          IC: Claws

 

[green slime]

Hi all,

What does RAW have to say about adding character levels to a monsters that normally advances by HD? For instance, if I wanted to build a Gargoyle Fighter - the Gargoyle entry says they advance by HD (and size).

If not allowed by RAW, can anyone see any problems houseruling this?

Not allowed?!?! WTF?

 

[Delta]

What does RAW have to say about adding character levels to a monsters that normally advances by HD? For instance, if I wanted to build a Gargoyle Fighter - the Gargoyle entry says they advance by HD (and size).

If not allowed by RAW, can anyone see any problems houseruling this?

Frankly, the RAW are actually silent on the matter. Most people presume that since it's mechanically feasible, you can add any levels to any monster you want.

I read the line "Often, intelligent creatures advance by gaining a level in a character class instead of just gaining a new Hit Die" as actually explaining the appearance of the "Advancement: By character class" descriptors. Personally, I only add character classes when it says so, just like that, in the monster description.