Library

[genshou]

On the contrary, the feat is appropriate to the genre. During 800 CE knowing where to find a book, what libraries exist, how to store books safely, which authors write about what, how to appeal to fellow scholars to get access to their books -- these are all very rare skills that aren't determined solely by owning a library. You've also got to know how to manage it, and that is what the feat reflects.

I don't know what year to attribute 800 CE to (damn, yet more proof that I don't know everything). Knowledge skills themselves are covered by the character's skill allocation and Intelligence modifier, and a good library grants a bonus to Knowledge skill checks of certain types when they are made using it.

Managing a library would be under Profession (Librarian). Most heroic characters with a library would hire someone (an Expert class-member in D&D) to manage their library for them, as well as assisting in locating books within it. Finding the books to add to a collection should no more require a feat than standard D&D requires a feat to find a magic item creator, or d20 Modern requires a feat to make a Wealth check for any specific item. Appealing to fellow scholars is already covered under the social d20 skills, e.g. Diplomacy.

I still don't understand your reasoning behind making the management of a library require so much more than it needs to. If books are hard to come by, make them expensive and not something you can get just by having money. But why make it into a feat?

 

[ThirdWizard]

I thought it was 1st declention masculin so it would be corpori?

I believe its a 4th declention word that starts in -us. Crazy huh? (Corpus Corpu)

Here's the question. Do you really expect anyone to take it? I wouldn't, but maybe you play a very different game. Personally, I would allow something like Profession(researcher) to give syngergy to other Knowlege checks and allow those with Profession(researcher) or somesuch to Aid Another the check when they can make use of a library. You might also consider having a "Masterwork" library that adds bonuses based on what it contains.

To me, this isn't what feats are for. This is what skills are for.

 

[Quickleaf]

I still don't understand your reasoning behind making the management of a library require so much more than it needs to. If books are hard to come by, make them expensive and not something you can get just by having money. But why make it into a feat?

Hmm, excellent points. I guess one way I could do it would be assigning prices to the authoritative corpora and allowing them to be purchased.
This is for a True20 game, so there is no profession skill (instead any skill can be used to make a profession check to gain wealth). As for why I did it as a feat, I had seen some d20 Modern feats which allow somebody to requisition equipment. Thus using the Track skill as a model (a feat expands use of a skill), I created the Library feat.

As for it being underpowered, I disagree. Consider a scholar with 18 Wealth. He has a library with 5 specialties, 1 authoritative corpus, and benefits from book knowledge, affiliation +1 and lending +1. So his net benefits from the feat might look like:

* Can take 20 on Knowledge (Alchemy, Engineering, History, Religion) checks, and gains a +2 bonus on Alchemy checks after a day of study.

* After a day of study he also gains the temporary benefit of Jabir Ibn Haiyan's authoritative corpus gaining +3 to K(Alchemy) checks, and he is able to make aqua regia and an alembic, though he does not yet have the training to make a golem or take the Create Life power.

* He can make a DC 25 Knowledge check in any Knowledge skill to learn about a pertinent book within the empire.

* He gets a +1 Reputation check bonus with scholars, and a +2 Diplomacy check bonus with scholars if he uses his library as leverage.

Consider that IMC, literacy is worth a feat (a PC begins with either literacy or eidetic memory). This seems well-balanced to me, not under-powered. And yes, my game is a different sort of game...more Ars Magica meets a rated R version of Al-Qadim than D&D.

 

[genshou]

Hmm, excellent points. I guess one way I could do it would be assigning prices to the authoritative corpora and allowing them to be purchased.
This is for a True20 game, so there is no profession skill (instead any skill can be used to make a profession check to gain wealth). As for why I did it as a feat, I had seen some d20 Modern feats which allow somebody to requisition equipment. Thus using the Track skill as a model (a feat expands use of a skill), I created the Library feat.

As for it being underpowered, I disagree. Consider a scholar with 18 Wealth. He has a library with 5 specialties, 1 authoritative corpus, and benefits from book knowledge, affiliation +1 and lending +1. So his net benefits from the feat might look like:

* Can take 20 on Knowledge (Alchemy, Engineering, History, Religion) checks, and gains a +2 bonus on Alchemy checks after a day of study.

* After a day of study he also gains the temporary benefit of Jabir Ibn Haiyan's authoritative corpus gaining +3 to K(Alchemy) checks, and he is able to make aqua regia and an alembic, though he does not yet have the training to make a golem or take the Create Life power.

* He can make a DC 25 Knowledge check in any Knowledge skill to learn about a pertinent book within the empire.

* He gets a +1 Reputation check bonus with scholars, and a +2 Diplomacy check bonus with scholars if he uses his library as leverage.

Consider that IMC, literacy is worth a feat (a PC begins with either literacy or eidetic memory). This seems well-balanced to me, not under-powered. And yes, my game is a different sort of game...more Ars Magica meets a rated R version of Al-Qadim than D&D.

Perhaps you are confusing the opinions of differing opponents of your idea? I never said it was underpowered, just that it shouldn't be a feat.

I don't know about literacy as a feat in most games, but it seems feasible within the setting you describe.

 

[Quickleaf]

Perhaps you are confusing the opinions of differing opponents of your idea? I never said it was underpowered, just that it shouldn't be a feat.

I don't know about literacy as a feat in most games, but it seems feasible within the setting you describe.

I was addressing Third Wizard who had wondered that "do you really expect a player to take this feat?" And thought my game must be really *different*....well, which it is.

 

[genshou]

I was addressing Third Wizard who had wondered that "do you really expect a player to take this feat?" And thought my game must be really *different*....well, which it is.

Ah, my apologies. Since my post was the only one you actually quoted within yours, I just assumed you were still directing your words toward me. I do think it is balanced, especially within the setting you describe.

 

[Terraism]

With regards to the mechanics itself, I think it looks mostly sound, with one minor nitpick - as the library grows, your bonus to knowledge checks (the ability to take 20,) doesn't actually increase in any one subject... but the time to make the check does. As such, by increasing the size of your library, you make it so it's harder to get research done on any given subject. I can see some rationale for that - more books can mean a lot more to search through - but it seems there should be something that scales similarly, whether it be the bonus to Knowledge or perhaps some mechanic for rushing the check. Otherwise, I like it.

 

[ThirdWizard]

By very different, I mean a game where research is considered fun.

 

[Simplicity]

I believe its a 4th declention word that starts in -us. Crazy huh? (Corpus Corpu)

Actually, corpus is *third* declension.
corpus, corporis, N.
Which makes the plural form corpora... because the neuter form is different for third declension nouns. And because it's a Monday.

 

[Quickleaf]

With regards to the mechanics itself, I think it looks mostly sound, with one minor nitpick - as the library grows, your bonus to knowledge checks (the ability to take 20,) doesn't actually increase in any one subject... but the time to make the check does. As such, by increasing the size of your library, you make it so it's harder to get research done on any given subject. I can see some rationale for that - more books can mean a lot more to search through - but it seems there should be something that scales similarly, whether it be the bonus to Knowledge or perhaps some mechanic for rushing the check. Otherwise, I like it.

Good point, but I'd like to clarify that you have the option of trading breadth of knowledge for depth of knowledge. Each specialty can be traded for a +2 bonus. Thus a scholar with a Wealth of 11 would have 3 specialties in his library. This might be 3 knowledge skill, 2 knowledge skills with a +2 bonus to one, or 1 knowledge skill with a +4 bonus. So there is a scaling mechanic. (Note: I just caught an error of mine. I had previousl written that a specialty can be traded for a +1 bonus -- it should be +2.)
I do like the idea of a rushed search. Maybe allow you to scale search time down by one level for every -1 taken to the Knowledge check?

By very different, I mean a game where research is considered fun.

I feel like I just got my head check. I mean, does my group find this stuff fun? Surely it would be better to be insulting pirates then kicking their butt and taking their phat loot?