Liches Touching Themselves

[Xanterith]

This is the way I see it:

1. Some positive energy heals living creatures
2. Some positive energy can damage living creatures.
3. Therefore, all positive energy is not healing.
4. All positive energy damages undead.

I would think that those rules would apply for undead and negative energy, and the touch would be a negative energy that does not heal.

 

[Infiniti2000]

A lich can deal 1d8+5 points of negative energy damage with his touch.

I voted no. This sentence of yours is actually wrong. The lich does not do precisely that. The precise wording with my emphasis is: "A lich without natural weapons has a touch attack that uses negative energy to deal 1d8+5 points of damage to living creatures..."

It says nothing about the effect on non-living creatures, so it has no effect on them.

Additionally, the text from the undead type is not inclusive: "Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures."

But, if you want to allow it you have to make the assumption that the lack of mention of non-living creatures was unintentional and that the lich's touch works "as an inflict spell". Such assumptions are reasonable, however.

 

[Artoomis]

I voted "yes," but I see this as yet another D&D question with a couple of right answers.

As is often the case, seeking THE right answer can be an exercise in futility; the rules are simply not precise enough for that.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Personally, I feel that if a lich comes to using a standard action to heal itself a paltry 1d8+5 hit points instead of empowered chain lightning-ing the PCs then it has probably already lost the battle.

I'm thinking more about PC liches. A lich has a LA of only +4. Given its natural armor, ability bonuses, paralyzing touch, undead immunities and exceptional DR,- not to mention its phylactery based resurrection ability - it seems gratuitious to allow them to heal 10 points of damage with a standard action. Such an ability seems significant enough that, if it existed, it would have been mentioned in the monster description.

 

[griff_goodbeard]

As is often the case, seeking THE right answer can be an exercise in futility; the rules are simply not precise enough for that.

Never stopped people from trying before.

 

[frankthedm]

I'm thinking more about PC liches. A lich has a LA of only +4. Given its natural armor, ability bonuses, paralyzing touch, undead immunities and exceptional DR,- not to mention its phylactery based resurrection ability - it seems gratuitious to allow them to heal 10 points of damage with a standard action. Such an ability seems significant enough that, if it existed, it would have been mentioned in the monster description.

LA+4 on a caster hurts a lot in a few ways. Losing out on 2 levels of spells is disheartening. when those are 7th, 8th and 9th level spells.

Going Poof! without a save from a 'fair fight' Sun Domain cleric when he waives his holy symbol is a big annoyance.

Slowish self healing can be nice [an action is very valuable at 15+ level and ], but if your entire party can make use of it, that means your tanks don't have CON scores. That is pretty darn bad.

The phylactery is nice, though your party has to gather your stuff if it is still around. That can be a major thing since your foes will be lauching devastating are of effect attacks at that level.

And even with auto-rezz phylactery, if the rest of the party is destroyed, I think the DM is well within their right to say the campaign ends. Not a lot brings undead character back IIRC short of a wish and the lich won't have that until epic [ECL 21].

...And so we leave our story with the Mialee the undying finally understanding why so many liches are encountered by themselves.

 

[Bad Paper]

I voted no, because nowhere does the description of the attack say that it heals undead. Then for shots and goggles I emailed WotC CustServ, and the jerk actually agreed with me! The nerve! Until now I've been consistently on the opposite side of every ruling they've ever pulled out of their donkey!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

That begs the question, why can it heal other undead and not itself? Is there a rational explanation for such a ruling? It certainly makes for a silly situation when a wight can heal a lich with touch and a lich can heal a wight with touch but neither can heal each other.

If a lich could heal itself with a touch, how could it ever be killed?

HIT!
HEAL!
HIT!
HEAL!
HIT!
HEAL!

The rational basis is requiring a lich to be brought to zero hit points in a single round in order to defeat it seems like it should be a lot higher CR than it is.

 

[javcs]

'Cept it's probably being hit for more that 13 (max possible damage/heal) in between actions. It's touch attack can be used once per round.

 

[Sithobi1]

Well, at 9.5 points of healing per round, I wouldn't be too worried about the in-combat ramifications.