Lies, Lies, Lies and Silent, Stilled, Eschewed Spells

[Thistleknot]

I am currently creating an adventure for my players and I was wondering if I could do something like this. (if you are one of my players, don't read this.)



















I have an NPC cleric that is working to frame the characters for a crime. I wanted to know if a cleric could cast a silent, stilled, eschewed version of one spell and make the gestures, say the words to, and hold the components of another spell, making it appear like they cast one spell while in fact, they cast an entirely different spell. This is all a part of a big conspiracy to ruin the reputation of one player's family and friends, as revenge against his family for a wrong committed 200 or so years ago. (I have patient villains.)

I was wondering, is this a valid thing to do? Or does this idea just smack of wrongness?

P.S.
I do have another way around this, I just wanted to have the plot as clean as possible, with just a few key players and a couple patsys around.

 

[Umbran]

What you suggest doesn't seem completely beyond reason. However, even with the feats, the caster must concentrate on a spell when casting. To do that and also put up a convincing bluff would be no mean trick.

I'd call for the lying caster to make a pretty solid Concentration check to still have the spell go off. I'd also have him make a Perform or Bluff check, opposed by the witness' Spellcraft or Sense Motive, to fake the components.

 

[nameless]

I'd have the "faker" make a bluff check against the spellcraft check of observers. Success means they think he cast the other spell, failure means they know he's faking, but don't know what the real spell is (depending on the spell, they might not know he cast one at all) Success by 20 or more means they know the real spell he cast, despite none of the telltale clues.

-nameless

 

[Savage Wombat]

Ooh, ick, vicious.

I'd allow it; I'd recommend requiring (of the NPC) a Spellcraft roll (to mimic accurately) and a Bluff roll (to portray the casting convincingly) to pull off the deception. DC of the check should be 15+spell level, unless you want to make it an opposed skill check.

 

[kreynolds]

l wouldn't allow it at all. The damage this would cause to identifying spells being cast, as well as for counter-spelling, would be tremendous. There are feats that make it difficult for others to identify what you are casting, but to completely mask Implosion beneath a false Cure Light Wounds, for example, is way too out there for me.

 

[Vaxalon]

I'd allow it, but at some pretty massive penalties to the spellcraft, bluff, and concentration checks.

First, he'd have to roll both spellcraft and bluff. This would be opposed by the BETTER of the observers spellcraft and sense motive skills, but he'd only use the WORSE of the two skills.

THEN his concentration check would have to exceed the BETTER of the two rolls to actually get the spell off.

So he'd have to be significantly more skilled than everyone around to pull it off, and even then it's risky.

 

[Andor of the Blade]

This may be easier for a sorceror/wizard to accomplish but if the spell-caster was invisible and had a Persistant Image cast, IMO it would work perfectly.

Otherwise, I would agree that it would require high Concentration check and a Bluff check (I would let him use Perform instead of Bluff if he wished). I would probably set the DC of the Concentration check at 10 + spell level (Combat Casting won't help). I would also let the Cleric add a modifier to his Bluff/Perform at the same rate as his Concentration DC increased. I.e., If he wanted to increase his chance of the Bluff/Perform succeeding by five, I would let him do so and add five to the DC of his Concentration check.

Any foes who know the spell he is apparently casting and are watching him, get to roll a SpellCraft check with a DC equal to 10 + spell level + Bluff/Perform of the casting cleric, in order to detect that something isn't right.

 

[kreynolds]

Anyhoo, this is getting into house rule fellas. It even started out as a House Rules question. What'dya say we move this puppy, huh?

 

[Xarlen]

Um... No one's suggested the Disguise Spell from S&S?

You cast the spell, with a Bluff as aposed to a Spellcraft/Sense Motive.

I imagine that, with this used, it could work just fine. Then all he needs to do is just chant the prayer to the other spell.

 

[Croaker]

Another way to get around the problem is to tack on yet another metamagic feat: Delay Spell. That way the cleric could cast his real spell undetected a few rounds ahead of time, then at the appropriate moment pretend to cast the false spell. In fact, depending on what the scenario is, the cleric might be able to forego silencing, stilling, or eschewing the spell by having a flunky distract the observers, or by ducking out of sight for a few moments.