Life begins at fifth level

[jester47]

I was thiniking about it. It seems to me that the classes in 3e are not so much classes but, due to multiclassing, they are rather "ingredients" for heroes. This is asuming that you have a concept of your character before you make it. So a character that is supposed to be the ultimate use any weapon, but just as deadly with bare hands and has a short temper would need to be a combination of Bar/Mnk and Ftr. So with this method you need several levels to have a character that is what you want if that is what you want.

Then you throw in non-standard races. Most of the ones that people want to run have a level adjust. To make the character interesting you need some class levels to.

Then you have prestige classes. You almost always have to be 5th or greater to take these. So that makes 6th level if you want to be able to make a character without limiting a lot of really cool options. So, in a way, the game really gets cooler now between 5th and 15th level (I guess I should expect someone to come in here and talk about how 3e is all about powergaming, please don't, start you own darned thread.) Even then its really 6th to 11th level, because at 11th the sorcerers get more options on thier 5th level spells and Wizards get cool 6th level ones get more. And at 6th anyone can take a prestige class.

But there is somthing to be said about building up a character from first. And I think that is the beauty of the system now. You can do both... It now caters to groups that like to do character concepts backed up by mechanics but also caters to groups that like to see where it goes.

Aaron.

 

[Alzrius]

A very well thought-out post.

I agree; to me, the whole ease of multiclassing system, combined with prestige classes (and customizeable skills and feats) means that you don't have to have your hero defined by his class now. You can mix and match the different ingrediants to have the kind of hero you want. You can have a character who is more defined by your view of him than his levels or race. That's one of the things I love most about the new edition of D&D.

 

[Trainz]

It's funny you mention that.

We always (for the past 4 years or so at least) started at 1st level, but I intended to start my first 3.5 game with new 6th level PC's.

Geek minds think alike.

Heh...

 

[Malin Genie]

I agree completely! I definitely prefer starting a game between 3rd-6th level so that you can try some combinations. I generally only go with standard races, but allowing flexible multiclassing is IMHO the strength of such a system.

 

[paulewaug]

nice things about 5th/6th level+

Fighter's (inc. "subgroups") getting a high enough BAB for second attacks!

Cool "Boom Spells" for Mages.
Besides boom spells magic is starting to get interesting because it can "do stuff" now.

The really fun monsters start to become viable opponents.

Enough Hit Points to have some really brutal fights!

You hopefully will have a few magic items by now.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

I've always been more of a lower level DM myself. The first few levels are always shaky, trying to see what the PC's are capable of, finding out about teamwork, and we havn't quite started to grow. Third level is where our little buds begin to spread out. Between third and fourth level is the point where it's suddenly not work to have dungeons that use each character's skill sets. They're different enough now that they rely on each other's different skills.

Fifth level is like adolescence. Suddenly, the roles that my players are used to start changing. They're not just talented soldiers anymore, but elite. They stand above the crowds, even above the skilled. Suddenly it's a little less of a struggle to make it, as it is a choice of what to do.

note that everyone's singleclassing in the campaign I'm DMing.

I think that fifth level is where the multi classed, or EL races would really start to shine. It's where enough of the class abilities come together to really make something cool.

On the other hand, without all that they've learned about themselves and eachother through the formative, early levels, my group would be without guidance and direction.

Life can only begin at fifth level when you've got the skills (instincts) of the first four built in. For my group, baby steps are still necessarry.

Good points all around, and I guess I pretty much agree totally. The system is great in how it's possible to build your character.

 

[jester47]

Level 6 can be level 1 with more mechanical backup

Another thought is the idea that if a party starts at 6th, then the DM has more options to work with the monsters he is going to use. 5 goblins can now be 5 goblin rogues. That way you still get the normal minions and your bad guys are more interesting. Your party can still start off fighting Orcs and Bandits. This begs further experiementation. Your NPC classes could start at 5th level (which is like 0 level if all PCs start at a ECL of 6). If a monster has a CR of 1, bump it up 5 levels. If a monster has a CR of 1/2 give him 2 levels, 1/4 gets 1 additional level. Things 6 and over you don't have to tamper with.

Aaron.

 

[Krug]

nice things about 5th/6th level+

Start qualifying for prestige classes.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

This post is pretty on-target. In previous editions of D&D, starting at 5th level felt like cheating, in 3rd edition starting at 5th level is acceptable and actually assists in the background. When your 5th level it is very easy to have a background as a veteran soldier or an apprentice wizard who has just left his mentor. I like that aspect of 3rd edition, it makes character creation a more creative process.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re

This post is pretty on-target. In previous editions of D&D, starting at 5th level felt like cheating, in 3rd edition starting at 5th level is acceptable and actually assists in the background.

And I must admit, where in First Edition I would never have dreamed of starting at anything except 1st level, in 3rd I find 1st through 4th fairly boring (although I must admit, that's after a couple of years that included a lot of low-level play).

5th is nice.

-Hyp.